Author Topic: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads  (Read 8302 times)

Online goodfellow

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This is a very interesting phenomenon, and maybe some of you experienced GM folks know what the deal is. Problem started about three weeks ago with the car reporting intermittent stability/traction control messages and the check engine light coming on. In each case I hooked up the scanner and found no codes. At first I thought that the throttle body was acting up, but I had fixed that problem by modifying the crankcase vent valve (PCV) and the oil fouling problems with the throttle body were solved. Checking the throttle body, it was clean as a whistle -- so there must be another issue. I drove the car for another week and the same crap kept happening every two/three days -- no codes set, but something isn't right, and the problem seemed to point to an electrical issue, rather than a mechanical one.

On a hunch I checked the battery -- it was marginal, and since it was the original (now seven years old), I decided to replace it. With the new battery, the problem went away -- no more check engine lights and no more traction control messages. Now two weeks in, and we're good to go --

If there are any late model GM knowledgeable guys on this forum, maybe you have an explanation for this problem. Maybe the ECM or BCM aren't getting the required voltage (within a certain parameter range) to do their job, and setting codes as a result of that issue?

Anyway -- for the Lambda platform guys (Traverse. Acadia, Outlook, Enclave) -- here is the battery replacement procedure.

First! -- TAKE THE KEY OUT OF THE IGNITION and set it aside. 

The battery is located behind the driver's seat, on the floor. You will have to move the driver's seat forward to gain full access. Turn the floor mat hold-down sideway and move the mat out of the way. The access panel is visible and held in place with a 20T Torx screw. You will also have to remove the plastic trim that covers the rear seat runners. It just pulls up and is held in lace with clips.







Remove the 20T nut from the access panel and the battery is accessible. However, as you can see there is a lot going on down there. The battery is Group Size H6, 730 CCA specific for this platform -- which includes a side vent to release potential explosive fumes to the outside of the car. The battery is held in place by a bracket and 13mm bolt at the bottom of the battery box.









The new battery should come with a new vent tube elbow and a vent block plug. In the case of this setup, the elbow is installed on the left side (negative) of the battery and the plug is used to plug the vent on the right (positive) side of the battery.









Now this is where some controversy comes in (and I have no way to prove this, but I err on the side of caution). Some GM Traverse forum posts report that if you disconnect the battery completely (i.e., render the system "dead"), then there might be some issues with the ECM and throttle response once the new battery goes in. The system may or may not be able to complete a relearn after a dead battery is replaced. Sometimes a dealer may have to force the relearn with a reprogram. I don't know if this is true or not, but just to be safe, I opted for a "hot" replace by using an auxiliary 12v lawnmower battery connected through the OBD2 with a memory saver cable -- I've had it for years and it was just a few $$ on ebay several years ago.

So, before disconnecting the main battery, I hooked up and activated the memory saver into the OBD2 port to keep the ECM happy with 12v power.







Now I removed the hold-down bracket and bolt, disconnected the vent tube and 10mm battery terminal nuts (negative side first), and removed the battery.





Installation was in reverse -- with the negative batter terminal going on last. Although the vent tube elbow can be installed before the battery goes in, I decided to install it after, since the space is tight and there's a good chance that I could break it while dropping the heavy battery into place. It's a bit more fiddly this way, but much more safe.



Once the negative terminal is hooked back up to the battery, the memory saver and auxiliary battery can be unplugged and removed. 

Now the cover and seat rail trim pieces are re-installed and the floor mat secured in place.







Good to go -- and after two weeks of driving - no more troublesome DIC messages and check engine anomalies.


While I was in the garage and had this thing on the lift, I decided to do the rear brakes -- did the fronts a few weeks ago and the rear pads came with UPS  yesterday. No time like the present to get it done -- pretty easy; no complicated rear calipers. These pistons just compress back into place, BUT they are phenolic material, hence caution is required when pressing the pistons back into their bores. Also make sure the Master Cylinder cap is off and a towel underneath it to catch any escaping fluid in case the level gets too high in the reservoir as a result of compressing the rear caliper piston.



Two 14mm caliper bolts



Phenolic piston -- I used an old brake pad to press against the phenolic piston to avoid damaging the delicate material.



Rotors look great -- just add new hardware and pads; good to go!!





The new Raybestos premium pads have wear indicators on both ends, whereas the OEM pads had only one.



Grease up the piston surface a bit and the caliper ears and slap it home.





Good to go for another 80K miles.



« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 10:10:07 AM by goodfellow »

Offline J.A.F.E.

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2019, 05:03:22 PM »
I'm no expert ion these cars but in general modern vehicles do not do well with low voltage. My Explorer kept throwing a code related to engine temp. Turns out the main ground at the engine was corroded.
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Offline stokester

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2019, 07:12:31 PM »
Those Traverse battery changes are fun, they're heavy and the well is just big enough to get your fingers on the top edge making it difficult to remove and there is naturally no handle on the top to help.  I replaced many of these and never ran into an issue with the ECM or throttle body relearn.

In my experience ABS and traction control are the systems most sensitive to a drop in voltage.  I thought you would have read some history codes related to those systems.  With the starter engaged the voltage in a weak battery may drop enough to trigger the errors and then take on enough of a charge to prevent it the remainder of the day.
Nick
Yorktown, VA

Online goodfellow

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2019, 08:00:04 PM »
Those Traverse battery changes are fun, they're heavy and the well is just big enough to get your fingers on the top edge making it difficult to remove and there is naturally no handle on the top to help.  I replaced many of these and never ran into an issue with the ECM or throttle body relearn.

In my experience ABS and traction control are the systems most sensitive to a drop in voltage.  I thought you would have read some history codes related to those systems.  With the starter engaged the voltage in a weak battery may drop enough to trigger the errors and then take on enough of a charge to prevent it the remainder of the day.

Good to know Nick -- thanks. This was the first time changing a Lambda platform battery for me; hence I was going in blind. On some of the Traverse/Enclave/Acadia forums there was a lot of debate about a "dead" vs. "hot" battery swap -- and I just don't know enough about the systems to distinguish between what's plausible or not.

As far as the battery itself - yeah; it's a bear, and very bulky to get squeezed into that cramped space.

Offline Matt_T

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2019, 09:56:11 PM »
You will have to move the driver's seat forward to gain full access.

Are the seats power or manual? Just wondering whether they've put the battery somewhere it can't be replaced when it's dead :-[

I thought you would have read some history codes related to those systems.

It probably set/stored codes but IIRC Ray only has an OBD-II code reader which probably can't access them.

Online goodfellow

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2019, 10:31:08 PM »
You will have to move the driver's seat forward to gain full access.

Are the seats power or manual? Just wondering whether they've put the battery somewhere it can't be replaced when it's dead :-[

I thought you would have read some history codes related to those systems.

It probably set/stored codes but IIRC Ray only has an OBD-II code reader which probably can't access them.

Yup; the LT has a manual passenger seat, but IIRC the LTZ has power -- and that would make it VERY difficult to service this battery.

You're also correct Matt, I only have OBD2 diagnostic capability. I don't have a sophisticated analyzer to read anything deeper than that.

Offline J.A.F.E.

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2019, 10:59:26 PM »
Is there at least jumper terminals in the engine compartment if you have to jump it?

You have to wonder who thought of this stuff and decided it was acceptable.

The VW CC has frameless door windows and the glass slides up into the weather stripping when the door closes. Seals things up very nicely but... When the inner or outer door handle is pulled the first part of the movement actuates the window motor to lower the glass just enough to clear the channel. Works great but if the battery is dead no movement. Can be a big problem.
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Online goodfellow

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2019, 08:36:54 AM »
Is there at least jumper terminals in the engine compartment if you have to jump it?

You have to wonder who thought of this stuff and decided it was acceptable..............................


Yes Steve, GM provided convenient jumper terminals in the engine compartment. When it comes to batteries, I'm just glad I don't own a MOPAR -- they hide the batteries in many of their vehicles in the bottom of the driver's side fender well, and you have to remove the tire and the fender liner just to access the damn thing.

Offline stokester

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2019, 09:25:51 AM »
Is there at least jumper terminals in the engine compartment if you have to jump it?

You have to wonder who thought of this stuff and decided it was acceptable..............................


Yes Steve, GM provided convenient jumper terminals in the engine compartment. When it comes to batteries, I'm just glad I don't own a MOPAR -- they hide the batteries in many of their vehicles in the bottom of the driver's side fender well, and you have to remove the tire and the fender liner just to access the damn thing.
My new Jeep Grand Cherokee has it under the passenger seat too  ???

Many vehicles today have the battery remotely mounted.  My daughter's Saturn Ion has it in the trunk like the newer Camaro and some Cruze models.  The HHR has it in the rear and the underhood jump post is near the connection for the steering motor so it was not uncommon to get an HHR with no power steering and a weak battery.  Jumping from that post blows the fuse so no permanent damage to the steering motor or module.
Nick
Yorktown, VA

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2019, 09:59:05 AM »
Man they sure make things complicated :-[


Offline pep

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2019, 10:07:25 AM »
I find the vent tube, and corrosion on the seat frame rather interesting ...
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Online goodfellow

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2019, 10:37:26 AM »
Good call pep -- I thought the same, hence I made sure that the new elbow and tube were very tightly secured.

On the other matter concerning the "cold battery swaps" vs. "Hot swaps" --- and the associated codes and intermittent Check engine light, and throttle body related traction control DIC messages. I searched the Traverse forum and found numerous entries that documented the same occurrences -- and many were also battery related. Problems occurred mostly due to cold swaps where the battery was disconnected, thereby rendering the control system "dead". The "hot swaps" seemed to go well and without problems.

Bottom line -- no one knows for sure what the actual cause(s) of the problem is. Right now our car is running well, and the memory was maintained. I will do the same procedure for my Caddy when the time comes.

Offline Barks

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2019, 03:10:32 PM »
So what is the over/under on percentage of these things running around with replacement batteries and no replacement vent elbow or tube?

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2019, 05:22:40 PM »
So what is the over/under on percentage of these things running around with replacement batteries and no replacement vent elbow or tube?

Haha, I am thinking 50% or so either don't have them put back on or are cracked during installation

Online goodfellow

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2019, 01:40:02 PM »
Took the car on a long 300 mile round trip yesterday, and the problem was solved. No more codes, no more traction control messages, -- no more anything. JAFE is probably right on the money; if the battery is in marginal condition, the control system in the car doesn't like it, and will set ambiguous codes and messages.

Not a great design in my opinion. These so called "smart systems" should at least be able to report marginal battery condition to head off these problems early on.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 08:58:54 AM by goodfellow »

Offline fatfillup

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Re: Weird electrical issues on 2012 Traverse -- plus rear brakes pads
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2019, 08:57:43 AM »

Not a great design in my opinion. These so called "smart systems" should at least be able to report marginal battery condition to head off these problems early on.

Just like most technology, and perhaps most things in life, you don't know where the weaknesses are until its out for a while.  That's why my darn phone is always updating >:(