Plomb 4749

[Davethorik]

Been wanting one of these, they don't seem particularly rare but I decided to wait for a NICE one. Been looking about 2 years.

Found this on eBay. Small, grainy photos but looked ok. Description said VGC. Title of auction was "Plumb" 1/4 ratchet. Came from a pawn shop in Whittier, California. $18, not a giveaway but for this condition I jumped on it.

Looks like it was literally used MAYBE 3-4 times due to very slight wear on drive. Some minute box rash. Guessing post WW2? Otherwise, minty fresh. Satin chrome, mirror polished on top and sides of head.There is oxidization on screws and selector, selector tough to shift. But ratchets perfectly in both directions.

Glad I waited!

[J.A.F.E.]

Very nice. Probably dried grease is whats causing the shifting issue. Just watch out for the springs when you open it.

I have to warn you - it's like being bitten by a zombie you are now infected.

[Plomb-er]

Nice find, very clean indeed. A little internal cleaning and lube will probably help. With the MFD USA it's around '46-'47.

[hickory n Steel]

Wow, that's a beautiful ratchet.

[Davethorik]

Thanks guys! Knock on wood, but I seem to have good luck gambling on Plomb tools with grainy photos listed as "Plumb" on ebay.

J.A.F.E.- it's funny I've had my Proto XL ratchets a few yrs now. I really dig the 1/2, I managed to break the 3/8 due to a manufacturing flaw, but Proto sent me a new one & it's been good so far. But never had one of the original style, so a classy first for me.

Plomb-er...Im hesitant to remove the screws however I'm sure you are right. Perhaps I'll try the old soak in ATF method. Thanks for confirming time frame!

HnS- thanks! I never see old Proto's in good shape is why I've never owned one. That is a testament to their strength,  because most look near worn to death. This one is staying as it is, strictly collector, I've decided.

[slip knot]

That's a nice one. Don't usually see them old ones in good shape like that.

[Cruiser808]

Nice find, very clean indeed. A little internal cleaning and lube will probably help. With the MFD USA it's around '46-'47.

Absolutely beautiful! To Plomb-er, this ratchet appears to be the last one manufactured with production stopping prior to the Proto name change. Could that ratchet be early 1948? I think so. What say you?

[d42jeep]

With the nice chrome plating and the MFD in USA I think it could have been made from ‘46 until the end of Plomb production in early ‘48.
-Don

[J.A.F.E.]

Not trying to derail the thread but there are at least four variations on the pebble 4749. I am not sure of the dates or even of the sequence but I believe the sequence I show them in is chronological.

The biggest difference in the top two is the bottom plate and I will designate these 1, 2, 3 and 4 starting at the top. The shape of the plate changed and #1 ratchet is unique among the four in that detail. #2 bottom plate is like 3 and 4. 1 and 2 beam is flatter and thinner top side to bottom side than 3 and 4 but 3 and 4 are thinner side to side than 1 and 2.



The lettering between 1 and 2 is slightly different between them as well and the pebble field is more well defined in 2 than in 1.



3 and 4 differ between them as well. The font used is a little different and the pebble field is a bit different. Not easily seen in any of pix is the cross sectional shape of the handles. 3 the sides have a slight arc while four has more of a taper shape and the angle is a little sharper.





If anyone can date these changes or even verify my guesses it is most appreciated. I have some earlier 4749's with some of the changes they evolved but that is another thread

[Davethorik]

Interesting. I knew there were knurled and pebbles handles, but that's it. Here are closeups of the grips on mine.

[J.A.F.E.]

Yours is slightly different still. The pebble field seems larger, the font a little larger and the pebble field much more clearly defined than 4. But I think the handle shape most closely matches 4.

I reviewed the thread again and realize I neglected to mention that looks like the nicest one I've ever seen.

As yet another aside the Proto kits will wok fine but if you replace the pawls the Protos have an extra lug on the bottom plate side that needs to be filed down. You can see the holes for the top lugs by the selector switch.

[Plomb-er]

Absolutely beautiful! To Plomb-er, this ratchet appears to be the last one manufactured with production stopping prior to the Proto name change. Could that ratchet be early 1948? I think so. What say you?

I think, like d42jeep, that this is probably right before the Plomb/Proto name fiasco happened so yes, at latest, early '48.  The thing is, it seems Plomb always had slight variations.  I'd hazard a guess this stems from the various manufacturing facilities they had. 

[d42jeep]

According to vintage Plomb ads, during the war their tools were being produced by 31 factories. The variations in Plomb Tools seem endless. I think that your first two examples are probably made sometime in 1945 right when Pebbles were first produced and marked Made in USA but unplated during the wartime metal restrictions. When chrome plating resumed after the war they changed the style of the ratchets and the markings were changed to MFG in USA but I’m not sure we’ll ever be able to accurately date the variations since they were made by multiple facilities. Check out the variations in these indentically numbered 3/8” extensions.
-Don

[DeadNutz]

I think d42jeep hit it perfectly with his explanation for the variations. The tool and die maker's work will vary among each individual making the same tooling resulting in the variations.

[Davethorik]

Yours is slightly different still. The pebble field seems larger, the font a little larger and the pebble field much more clearly defined than 4. But I think the handle shape most closely matches 4.

I reviewed the thread again and realize I neglected to mention that looks like the nicest one I've ever seen.

As yet another aside the Proto kits will wok fine but if you replace the pawls the Protos have an extra lug on the bottom plate side that needs to be filed down. You can see the holes for the top lugs by the selector switch.

I think mine resembles your 3. On the side with the plumb bobs, it looks like yours was machined down, flattening everything out. But the flip side didn't have that done, it looks like mine.

I think the handle irregularities also probably stem from being hand finished. You can't really see finishing marks so I'd guess media blasted before plating. Do you have full length shots of the other side of those 4?

And thank you for the compliment, I took a gamble ebaying this and was floored when I opened the package. It really looks new. And late production. Very cool.

[J.A.F.E.]

In some ways it does. It's almost like a 5.

At Long Beach swap and Pomona swap run of the mill examples sell for 15-20 so you got a very good deal on that in my eyes.

Given they were made local to here you'd think someone who worked in the factories wold still be around to ask some of these questions but I've never met anyone.

[Davethorik]

I had noticed about $20-25 on eBay but they were usually not in the best shape. I'm happy with it, especially since Plomb is scarce here in Ohio.

I also won another auction for a NOS Plomb keychain screwdriver in much the same manner. It was listed as Plumb, grainy low-res pix. It is the black oxided finish, and the rear side is blank. That one was a straight auction, found right after listing and starting bid $9. I bid $10, waited 7 days, and no other bidders so I won.

There are a number of legit complaints about ebay but it's fun if you are patient.

[J.A.F.E.]

You did well on the keychain screwdriver.

I gave up ebay some years back because I had some issues but not everything they do is bad and there have been things I've found I'd otherwise never been able to get. Swimming against the current, as usual, I have actually been contemplating going back.