Re-furbing plumbing valves

[bonneyman]

Had a customer call yesterday with a leaky faucet out back. Went over there, and she said it was 11 years old. I told her I could probably rebuild it - she said just get a new one. So, I went to Ace and bough there a new one for $10 and change. She said, "and make sure you get a good one - not a cheap one!" I laughed and said everything was cheap these days. Got her up and running - we've got it in the computer software and we'll track how long it lasts.

Brought her used one home. Disassembled it with the help of my trusty Bonney flare wrenches - swapped out the bad seat washer. Put it on the wire wheel, cleaned it up, and will throw it in the used box for 1/2 price on someone else if they want it. I'm sure sooner or later someone will take it.

Works on anti-siphon valves and backflow preventers, too!

[goodfellow]

Pretty cool!! BM take some pics next time please because many of us have never done that type of refurb work before.

[bonneyman]

Pretty cool!! BM take some pics next time please because many of us have never done that type of refurb work before.

10-4

[slip knot]

I try to save all the old interior fixtures. They don't make them worth a damn anymore. This house has the same shower fixture in it that was put in it when built in the 50s. Gerber brand. you can still get replacement stems for @$15. way cheaper than a temporary replacement.

[bonneyman]

Virtually all of the hose bibbs I see are either Arrowhead Brass or Mueller. There's one white plastic washer in a size that the local hardware stores don't seem to carry - if that washer is damaged - or I screw it up taking it off for cleaning - it's game over.
I'm scouring the internet to see if I can source those things.
This place looks pretty good at first glance:

https://www.thepartworks.com

Seems like Arrowhead is a subsidiary of Champion brass (the lawn irrigation people). Looks promising.

http://champion-arrowhead.com

[bonneyman]

As per request, here's a step-by-step procedure I use to refurb hose bibbs. I'll be using one I've already worked on for the disassembly portion. I usually do this on the bench in the shop, as most people opt to just swap out a new valve. But the refurb can be done with the faucet still attached to the wall. One must just be careful when doing that method - turn water off to the structure, don't get over zealous with your wrenching (back-up wrenches are mandatory), and make-sure you have the proper parts/rebuild kit handy.

Here's a typical water faucet valve, also called hose bibbs (due to the 3/4" garden hose thread on the outlet side) and sill cocks. The first is an Arrowhead brass, the second is a Nibco. The parts will be different but the procedures are very similar.

The parts that take the wear and usually have to be replaced are the seat washer and screw, the nylon packing washer, and the bonnet cone washer (in that order).

[bonneyman]

Remove the handle retaining screw and pry the handle off the valve shaft. The phillips head screws tend to strip out easily, especially with the corrosion that's almost always present. If the head does strip out, remove the screw with a small vise grips. This'll totally mangle it but with the drive slots stripped out you'll have to replace it anyway. I don't recommend any kind of impact driver - ESPECIALLY if the valve is still attached to the wall. 
The valve shaft end is splined and will probably be full of caked on minerals. Be careful removing the handle - it's usually pot metal and the shafts is brass - both soft and easily buggared.

[bonneyman]

Remove the bonnet nut. This one is 3/4" hex. I strongly recommend using a box or flare wrench with enhanced broaching (Flank Drive, Loc-Rite, etc), as these brass nuts are soft and typically wrenched on tight. Open ends or regular box ends will tend to damage and distort them, making them prone to leakage.
Underneath the bonnet nut is a cone washer. (upside down pic). Take care not to damage it when removing the nut off of the valve shaft, as alot of times they are not the part that's leaking and they usually don't come in the rebuild kits. No sense having to track down another part. Unless it's torn or totally buggared you can re-use them, as a little leakage can be corrected by tightening down the bonnet nut a little.

[bonneyman]

Remove the shaft and collet assembly. On the Arrowhead the collet nut is 13/16". Again, an enhanced broach wrench is mandatory. The flats are so thin, soft, and typically torqued down - plus corroded - a regular wrench will round off the corners. If that happens it's almost always the end of the job, as these things - if even findable - are as much as a who;le valve. Be careful.
Remove the valve shaft out of the bottom end and flip it over. There you will see the seat washer and screw. 90% of the time this is the only part that is leaking and needs replaced, as every time you operate the valve this washer gets squeezed and turned against the brass valve seat. Many times the screws are tight but can usually be coaxed out.

[bonneyman]

The last part to inspect is the nylon or polypropylene packing washer. This particular one is about 13/16" OD and 21/32" ID. It sits in a recess on the top of the valve body. Take extreme care not to damage it in any way. They love to leak at the slightest provocation. Of the three wearable parts in a hose bibb these little buggars are the hardest to find, as each valve must have a specific one. I've fixed slight leakers with some T2 pipe dope. You takes your chances.

Looking down into this cavity reveals the brass valve seat. These are not replaceable and are permanently attached to the valve. Normally they're OK, though if your area has hard water it could be roughed up enough to cause seat washer damage. You can take a shot and leave it - see how long the new seat washer lasts. Or you can grab your trusty seat dresser tool and clean the valve seat up. I don't normally do that as the labor starts exceeding the cost of a new valve. But in some applications where the valve is not removable or soldered in you might give it a whirl.

[bonneyman]

Install the new seat washer and screw if needed, and reverse the procedure to put the valve back together. Use a good quality plumbers/faucet grease on the square threads of the shaft. Can't hurt.
If the valve was removed I usually put it on the wire wheel and clean it up. Get out the dremel tool and clean out some of the crud on the internal passages that I can easily get to. Throw it in the plumbing bucket and keep it handy for personal use or if a needy customer has to save every penny.
I would sell this refurb valve for $8 - a new one would be more like $18-20 for the customer. Say an hours labor to go get the right valve and return plus swap it out. The customer would be saving quite a bit going with the refurb. If I just R&R the seat washer and don't have any problems, I can save them even more. Then again you gotta feel the customer out. Some will automatically be calling you in a month saying the refurb valve is leaking again, and they want a brand new one for free. Though when things get tough a handyman repair like this will be appreciated.

[bonneyman]

P.S.  Was in Ace Hardware today, and noticed among their plumbing tools a valve seat dresser by a company called O'Malley Valve. Apparently they also make a replaceable seat threader and installer in case your faucet is so old it can't take anymore seat redressing. Might have to look into that tool.

https://www.omalley.com/drip-stoppers.html

[J.A.F.E.]

Thank you!

The problem I see is the old valves are just so much better quality than the new ones so the dollar vs dollar logic seems skewed. The older ones are likely to last much longer with a rebuild than the newer ones and it's hard to quantify that when only looking at cost.

[DeadNutz]

Thanks for the tutorial Bman. No standard hose bibs here as they don't do well with below zero temps. Good old made in Iowa Woodford hydrants out on the property and frost/freeze proof bibs on the house.

[bonneyman]

Thank you!

The problem I see is the old valves are just so much better quality than the new ones so the dollar vs dollar logic seems skewed. The older ones are likely to last much longer with a rebuild than the newer ones and it's hard to quantify that when only looking at cost.

I agree, but so many customers only look at the $ sign. Best I can do is offer the options, and let the customer choose. Worst case scenario I have spares for personal use. I have 5 outside bibbs, so spares are a good thing.