why I am glad to be represented by a union...

[bonneyman]

Far too many businesses are focused on money. Far too many employees are focused on money, too. You have virtually every single soul chasing after the limited number of dollars, and someone is bound to get shorted.

Individuals need to focus on vocation. What God has called you - and gifted you - to do. Yes we need money to live. But if that's all you're after you're bound to come up frustrated. Do what you're good at, whatever it is. Do it well, put your heart into it. If you can't do that at your job, quit and find a job where you can. Honest work is fulfilling, and eventually you will reach a place of contentment.

Bosses need to focus on their most important asset - their employees. Yes you need profit to stay in business. But if you focus on profit and only your funds to the exclusion of all else you will eventually lose your business and livelihood. Because you treat your people poorly they will get frustrated and leave, which then means you have to hire replacements. Training is expensive - constant retraining is bankrupting. Eventually folks will either form a union to force change or your business will get a rep and nobody will want to work for you. This is already happening. Businesses have responded by outsourcing where there is cheap labor with no unions, and now going to AI and automation. Shows everybody where they're focused on.
A businesses number one asset is its people. Invest in them, take care of them, treat them like you want to be treated. If they're not worth that investment, fire them and get people who are. There are good workers out there, and they're looking for good places to work. Be one of those places. Think long term - any investment in people will come back to blow-you-over bless you. I'm thinking the movie "Mr. Hollands Opus".

I've reached a point in my life where it seems I've fallen thru the cracks. Can't find work I can do, seems like I invested 30 years in HVAC for nothing other than keeping my own unit going. Kinda got me down. Then over the past 6 months I've gotten calls from 8-10 people I haven't talked to in years. Asking me where I've been, am I OK, and how glad they were to have me doing they're A/C over the years. How honest, affordable, and using out-of-the-box thinking to get things fixed. And I keep running into people like this. So maybe my life meant something after all.

[Uncle Buck]

Changing jobs was still easy at 50 YO. That was not the case at 60 YO. Even though my work was not in the trades, no one would touch me. Thirty years plus experience and two college degrees did not make a bit of difference.  After most of two years out of work with countless jobs applied for with either no reply, or not selected it became clear the issue was my age. Many of the jobs I failed to land I would not have wasted time applying to at 50. However,  I was shocked to not land even one when I started applying to them in desperation at 60 YO.

I finally went back to the one place I knew where my age would not be a factor.  I returned to work at the state where I had left years ago to find better pay. Fortunately,  the guy hiring was a guy that ironically I was instrumental in getting hired 15 years prior after he had been out of work for a long time, so I knew he would put me back to work and he did. In August I started back to work doing the same job I left years prior.

The state will pay you just enough money to keep you poor. That said, stress is zero, benefits are generous, and the job is solid and going nowhere.  I  learned my lesson. At soon to be 62 I plan to stay until I retire.

Age discrimination is real, I found out after experiencing it. Good luck ever proving it, I think you would have a bitch of a time!

[slip knot]

one of the reasons I see for business' to chase the profit dollar is the advent of the IRA. Everyones retirement is no longer tied to a company staying in business but to the stock market. There is a huge incentive to show a 1/4ly profit at all costs. If you dont then the stock price falls and people bail on your stock sending you into bankruptcy. We've been forced to chase the almighty dollar for ourselves if we want a reasonable retirement. 

[TexasT]

https://www.businessinsider.com/target-workers-caught-off-guard-by-stanley-cup-crackdown-2024-1

another in the at will employment lane, where there are rules and then there are rules that get enforced. I can see why they had the rule but don't see how a person at the Starbucks store in the store sold one to a "Customer" was getting over on the hold back. some of the other tales were a little less savory but in those cases a union could have filed the grievance and taken it to the mediation if needed. Just some hard working individuals getting crushed by that corporate Goliath.

[Lookin4_67GalaxieConv]

https://www.businessinsider.com/target-workers-caught-off-guard-by-stanley-cup-crackdown-2024-1

another in the at will employment lane, where there are rules and then there are rules that get enforced. I can see why they had the rule but don't see how a person at the Starbucks store in the store sold one to a "Customer" was getting over on the hold back. some of the other tales were a little less savory but in those cases a union could have filed the grievance and taken it to the mediation if needed. Just some hard working individuals getting crushed by that corporate Goliath.

Seems like there's likely more to the story, but if it's that cut and dried, she should sue Target.

As an aside, I know 'Business Insider' always presents pieces with an agenda, so I'm always a little wary when I read their articles.

[bonneyman]

Age discrimination is real, I found out after experiencing it. Good luck ever proving it, I think you would have a bitch of a time!

Yep, I think I'm getting hit with it. Apps and resumes sent for several years, can't even get an interview, returned phone calls, or emails. For awhile it was the COVID thing where lots of people worked remote. But now shops everywhere can't find people who want to work, have signs posted, you go in to talk to them and it's always, "We do applications on line now". I submit and never hear back.

Either it's my age - or my attitude of "I'm here to work, tell me what to do and it'll get done, plus I have my own tools and 40+ years of work experience.

[slip knot]

I interviewed an older guy (60ish) for an Instrumentation tech position last week. He's got a ton of experience. I'll probably be making him an offer this week. People are idiots to turn away older workers.

[goodfellow]

I interviewed an older guy (60ish) for an Instrumentation tech position last week. He's got a ton of experience. I'll probably be making him an offer this week. People are idiots to turn away older workers.

Absolutely true! People with experience (like Bonneyman) are a dream come true to some manufacturers, and yet some other industries are trying to move them out as quickly as possible to make room for less experienced but cheaper newbies.

It's amazing how many companies in my area (central Virginia) are looking for welders, electricians, plumber, bricklayers, and heavy equipment mechanics. Yet many of these companies don't want to hire older seasoned tradesmen because of the (perceived) higher long-term costs. I don't get it either, but whoever is advising these folks, they're doing these companies a huge disservice.

[muddy]

I interviewed an older guy (60ish) for an Instrumentation tech position last week. He's got a ton of experience. I'll probably be making him an offer this week. People are idiots to turn away older workers.

Absolutely true! People with experience (like Bonneyman) are a dream come true to some manufacturers, and yet some other industries are trying to move them out as quickly as possible to make room for less experienced but cheaper newbies.

It's amazing how many companies in my area (central Virginia) are looking for welders, electricians, plumber, bricklayers, and heavy equipment mechanics. Yet many of these companies don't want to hire older seasoned tradesmen because of the (perceived) higher long-term costs. I don't get it either, but whoever is advising these folks, they're doing these companies a huge disservice.

I think a lot of the mentality is that they will only get 5-10 yrs out of them and then have to hire a new guy anyway.



Sent from my twisted mind of the mudman

[slip knot]

I interviewed an older guy (60ish) for an Instrumentation tech position last week. He's got a ton of experience. I'll probably be making him an offer this week. People are idiots to turn away older workers.

Absolutely true! People with experience (like Bonneyman) are a dream come true to some manufacturers, and yet some other industries are trying to move them out as quickly as possible to make room for less experienced but cheaper newbies.

It's amazing how many companies in my area (central Virginia) are looking for welders, electricians, plumber, bricklayers, and heavy equipment mechanics. Yet many of these companies don't want to hire older seasoned tradesmen because of the (perceived) higher long-term costs. I don't get it either, but whoever is advising these folks, they're doing these companies a huge disservice.

I think a lot of the mentality is that they will only get 5-10 yrs out of them and then have to hire a new guy anyway.



Sent from my twisted mind of the mudman

3-5 years is about all We're getting out of any of the new employees we get. Out of my 15 employees, I have 3 that have 20yrs +, everyone else has 3 yrs or less. They get bored and move on to other jobs. I've had an I&C tech recently leave at 5 yrs and an operator interviewing for another job after 3yrs. There is no loyalty from the employees or employers any more. The younger folks have figured out you got to bounce from job to job to make more money. The older guy I'm looking to hire is 5yrs away from retirement. I'll be happy with 5 yrs.

[muddy]

I interviewed an older guy (60ish) for an Instrumentation tech position last week. He's got a ton of experience. I'll probably be making him an offer this week. People are idiots to turn away older workers.

Absolutely true! People with experience (like Bonneyman) are a dream come true to some manufacturers, and yet some other industries are trying to move them out as quickly as possible to make room for less experienced but cheaper newbies.

It's amazing how many companies in my area (central Virginia) are looking for welders, electricians, plumber, bricklayers, and heavy equipment mechanics. Yet many of these companies don't want to hire older seasoned tradesmen because of the (perceived) higher long-term costs. I don't get it either, but whoever is advising these folks, they're doing these companies a huge disservice.

I think a lot of the mentality is that they will only get 5-10 yrs out of them and then have to hire a new guy anyway.



Sent from my twisted mind of the mudman

3-5 years is about all We're getting out of any of the new employees we get. Out of my 15 employees, I have 3 that have 20yrs +, everyone else has 3 yrs or less. They get bored and move on to other jobs. I've had an I&C tech recently leave at 5 yrs and an operator interviewing for another job after 3yrs. There is no loyalty from the employees or employers any more. The younger folks have figured out you got to bounce from job to job to make more money. The older guy I'm looking to hire is 5yrs away from retirement. I'll be happy with 5 yrs.

Part of the "Bouncing" in my opinion is because the youngest don't seem to pick anything up or seem to learn much. They stay at a job for a bit till they get a better $ amount and move one. Not really improving themselves.

Sent from my twisted mind of the mudman

[slip knot]

I wish I could get those guys to go. Most of the ones I'm losing are pretty talented. They are the ones with ambition to do better. The talent challenged ones seem comfortable here. The Muni world relys on benefits to keep employees and the younger guys dont care about retirement or dental/vision. All they see is the $$ on the check.

[fatfillup]

Yeah, 3 to 5 years is about right for any type of employee

[bonneyman]

Sorry guys - I don't mean to complain. I've had a good run. Thirty years doing a job I liked, made a living at it, had the opportunity to pass on some knowledge to several guys. The sun has set - I need to accept it and move on.

I offered my apprentice the chance to learn HVAC (he's 27) but he declined, saying he really wants to referee basketball. Thought about donating my A/C tools to a job training center near me but couldn't get anyone to contact me. Walked into Panda Express to grab some lunch yesterday and they had a sign on the door saying $19 an hour to start. Couldn't believe it! Last part time job I had in A/C in 2018 I made $20 an hour. Now they get almost that much to run a wok? 

Weird how things have gotten. Have to do some serious re-evaluation and soul searching to figure out where to go from here.

[slip knot]

The world has changed Bman. I still see a lot of older folks working in the trades. Seems a lot of the younger folks dont want to put in the manual labor. Most of the hardware stores/old school lumber yards are staffed by older folks around here. Even the big orange and blue box stores have a bunch of older workers.
Maybe you need to re-evaluate what you can do. I got a friend that does commercial AC work but he was getting old/tired/burned out on it. He got into commercial kitchen work and is busier than ever. He just has to work some odd hours to accommodate the customer now.