What distinguishes a pistol/hand gun from a rifle/long gun?

[Rusty]

[m_fumich]

(YouTube video)

The entire basis for the distinction between a pistol and a short barreled rifle in that video is what the government says. I’m asking about what constitutes a pistol outside the government distinction. Other governments may classify the AR pistol as a rifle, I don’t know. Let’s apply this question to the pre-government regulation time. I don’t think the government started restricting gun ownership until the 20th century. Citizens were once able to purchase sub machine guns by mail order. So prior to government regulation, what constituted a pistol?


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[bmwrd0]

The difference, in my eyes at least, is a pistol has to be fired from the hands, while a rifle can be braced against the shoulder. There are exceptions (bench rest rifles for instance or a shoulder stock for a Mauser Broomhandle) but that will generally cover it.

[m_fumich]

I think how the gun is held when fired is a big part of it. The video Rusty posted is the first one I’ve seen where the “AR pistol” was actually strapped to the shooters arm. In EVERY OTHER VIDEO the shooter had the butt/brace fully against their shoulder when firing.

Consider the mini 14 as it was often used in The A-Team from the 80’s. It was often used with no butt stock at all. It is still a rifle. But if the barrel were to be shortened so the overall length were 25-3/4”, would that make it a pistol? I don’t see how it would.

What if you were to take a .38 snub nosed revolver and put a butt stock on it so it’s overall length was 26-1/2”, would that make it a rifle? I have no doubt it would not.

[DeadNutz]

Back in the 80's the Mini-14 was available with a folding stock. That still didn't make it a pistol.

[m_fumich]

Back in the 80's the Mini-14 was available with a folding stock. That still didn't make it a pistol.

Folding stocks and non-folding stocks are treated the same. Would you consider it a pistol with no butt stock at all?


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[DeadNutz]

I don't know what you are seeking with this conversation or do you just want to argue semantics?

[highland512]

What distinguishes a pistol/hand gun from a long gun??   

Ask the ATF............................................. or not, hell they dont know half the time either.

https://www.range365.com/atf-prosecutes-ohio-man-for-ar-pistol-with-brace?src=SOC&dom=fb&fbclid=IwAR06lFC1OpV5KoFe3090D3qt-5bHkqSP7Hwy4I-ydMUKuaOomsb6LGCgN_Y#page-2

ATF lost this case by the way.

[hickory n Steel]

What distinguishes a pistol/hand gun from a long gun??   

Ask the ATF............................................. or not, hell they dont know half the time either.

https://www.range365.com/atf-prosecutes-ohio-man-for-ar-pistol-with-brace?src=SOC&dom=fb&fbclid=IwAR06lFC1OpV5KoFe3090D3qt-5bHkqSP7Hwy4I-ydMUKuaOomsb6LGCgN_Y#page-2

ATF lost this case by the way.

Interesting.
As far as I know it was decided that a brace is not a stock and they can't stop you from using it like one as long as It's not modified in a way that it no longer functions as an arm brace.
So I guess you can't go removing all the straps and stuff that make it an arm brace.

[m_fumich]

I don't know what you are seeking with this conversation or do you just want to argue semantics?

I’m not trying to argue about anything while it may all be semantics. I’ve pretty much come to the conclusion that, excluding the position of the government, being a pistol or rifle  isn’t based on any one feature. Although few rifles chamber pistol cartridges and practical pistols don’t normally chamber rifle cartridges, doing so doesn’t necessarily make one the other. While barrel length could be a factor, it’s fuzzy as to when the length becomes definitive. And having a stock doesn’t always determine weapon by itself but is often combined with barrel length or cartridge type to make the determination. How the weapon is held is also a factor but that is affected by the stock and barrel length.

This reminds me of the question “What is pornography?” I can’t tell you what it is but I know it when I see it.


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[bonneyman]

What distinguishes a pistol/hand gun from a long gun??   

Ask the ATF............................................. or not, hell they dont know half the time either.

https://www.range365.com/atf-prosecutes-ohio-man-for-ar-pistol-with-brace?src=SOC&dom=fb&fbclid=IwAR06lFC1OpV5KoFe3090D3qt-5bHkqSP7Hwy4I-ydMUKuaOomsb6LGCgN_Y#page-2

ATF lost this case by the way.

The ATF will just tell you to send the firearm to them for inspection, and - if it's legit - they'll send it back.   

[Rusty]

Pistol one handed semiautomatic weapon.
Revolver one handed revolving cylinder weapon.
Carbine shoulder stock two handed weapon barrel up to 18 inches..
Rifle shoulder stock two handed weapon barrel 18 inches or more in length.

[m_fumich]

Pistol one handed semiautomatic weapon.
Revolver one handed revolving cylinder weapon.
Carbine shoulder stock two handed weapon barrel up to 18 inches..
Rifle shoulder stock two handed weapon barrel 18 inches or more in length.

The term pistol is a broader term that is not specific to the firing mechanism. Revolvers are pistols. Derringers are pistols while they are neither revolvers nor semiautomatic.
While I agree that a pistol must be capable of firing its entire supply of ammunition one-handed, two-handed if the second hand is used to support the first, lashing the firearm to the shooters arm should not be permitted to meet that criteria. Bullpups can often be fired one-handed but they are a design separate entirely from pistols and rifles. But the fact they can be fired with one hand and have a longer barrel just shows that the criterial for being a pistol or not is very fluid.

What if a firearm has no shoulder stock and an 18+” barrel? I think that would still be a rifle.

Does a shoulder stock on a .38 revolver with a 3” barrel make it a carbine? I think it would still be a pistol. A stupid looking pistol but still a pistol.

I find it difficult to identify a consistent set of criteria on which to determine pistol or rifle classification, government classification aside. It seems that any “rule” can’t logically be applied to all firearms. There’s always a combination of barrel and stock that excludes it from one classification or the other.




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