Author Topic: The CO monitor in the garage went off.  (Read 3202 times)

Offline torqueman2002

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The CO monitor in the garage went off.
« on: July 02, 2020, 09:04:08 PM »
At first I thought it was some kind of a bird, three short chirps, repeated about every 60 - 70 seconds. And it sounded like it was first in the backyard trees and then in the front yard trees.

When the dog ran away - upstairs, I got up to check on it.

Yup, it was the carbon monoxide CO alarm just inside the door to the attached garage.

The garage had an odor, but I had the over-head door open earlier when I used the AO torches outside, to heat and then oil quench bolts, nuts, washers - for a black oxide or blackening finish.

Afterwords, I turned off the tank valves, bled the hoses and regulators; and moved them into the garage.

The tanks have been fine for over 2 years, with no gauges attached. Today I dragged them out, because the propane torch was very slow and gave inconsistent results.

After about 2 hours in the garage, the acetylene tank gauge showed over 200psi with the valve closed and the regulator 'off', it leaked enough to trigger the CO alarm. The valve on the acetylene tank no longer closes completely.

Question - with the regulator screw backed/turned off, from where would the acetylene gas escape?

Tomorrow, when it is still cool out <80F, I'll reassemble the gauges/tanks and use a soapy solution to look for the leak after the tank valve.

Right now, the acetylene tanks is capped with a plastic cover, the valve tight as I can/dare to force it.

Also - It is a B size tank, I swap out at AirGas, but they are closed tomorrow. Will another supplier accept it in exchange?

I really want to finish this project. It's one of the last steps to finishing a 3/4-HP Baldor grinder (Big Red) restore. Some of you may remember a poll about which grinder I should restore next ~3 months ago.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 09:09:12 PM by torqueman2002 »
"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

Offline goodfellow

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Re: The CO monitor in the garage went off.
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2020, 11:32:19 PM »
Sorry to hear that TM. The leak could be any number of things - the packing in the valve, the gauges, the bottle neck seal, or even the emergency fusible release plugs in the bottom of the cylinder- if it’s so equipped.

Good luck with the inspection


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Offline goodfellow

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Re: The CO monitor in the garage went off.
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2020, 11:34:20 PM »
Most B sized tanks can be exchanged anywhere that gas is sold. I’ve seen exceptions, but that size is a common homeowner seller and the companies will exchange them readily.


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Offline torqueman2002

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Re: The CO monitor in the garage went off.
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2020, 07:42:14 AM »
 :coffee2:
Thanks gf.

As I headed to bed, the CO alarm was chirping away again. So, I'm ruling out the gauge set for the moment.

The battery checks good, replaced anyway though.

I mentally listed what was different in the garage and settled on the sandblasted/cleaned parts waiting on the black oxide treatment and the pan of oil used to quench the first few test pieces.

The pan of oil had an unusual odor that I had noted the first go-around. To play it safe, all the parts and the pan of oil was moved out side. I left the over head door open a crack, and went beddy bye.

FYI -- I slept like a baby, woke up, cried, went back to sleep. Luckily I did not wet the bed!  :08:

I checked on the CO monitor 1st thing this morning, all OK.

I'm getting ready to make some calls to welding supply houses. I'll check back with what I find on the gauges, but I think they're very likely not the source of the leak.

Thanks.

BTW - are others having the same trouble with the Preview button. 2x now in this thread, it did nothing, but clicking the Post button works fine for me.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 07:44:56 AM by torqueman2002 »
"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

Offline jabberwoki

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Re: The CO monitor in the garage went off.
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2020, 01:57:33 PM »
Sounds like you gotta back of the beans mate?
Is the need enough? Or does the want suffice?

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: The CO monitor in the garage went off.
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2020, 03:58:22 PM »
I found the only welding supply company in metro Detroit that was open today.

My lucky break  :dance: - owner/operator wanted to escape all the honey-dos @ home.

I exchanged the B size acetylene tank for $45. I'd read that the price was getting really expensive. It's been so long I can't recall what I paid the last time.

I closed the garage door early this morning, the CO monitor is quite since. I calling it the slightly used quench oil, but will test by bringing it back into the garage.

It's been so hot & humid, I decided to wait until it cools off tonight or tomorrow to finish the blackening project.

Correction - Preview button is working for me! I didn't know the preview window was above the edit window.  :lol_hitting:
"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: The CO monitor in the garage went off.
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2020, 04:01:40 PM »
Sounds like you gotta back of the beans mate?
Oh boy, and tacos for dinner tonight!  :D
"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: The CO monitor in the garage went off.
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2020, 07:13:51 PM »
Well, all tight and leak free with the gauge set, hoses, torch, and tanks.

No more alarms from the CO monitor.

My as yet untested theory is the quench oil is off-gassing something the CO monitor (and Mrs. Torqueman!) objects to.

I'll see if the theory holds up tomorrow.

BTW - this steel blackening is not as straight forward as I thought it would be, from watching a couple of YouTube vids and reading 2 or 3 Google articles.

Small nuts, bolts, and washers are straight forward. Use enough heat OA or propane, to get object orange-cherry red and drop it into oil. I use a 'double boiler' method - 1 qt of oil in a ss restaurant prep pan, sitting in a bath of cool water nested in a larger ss prep pain. Even so, the oil/fumes may catch fire.

Larger objects, like spark arrestors, and eye shield brackets need a lot of heat - OA [MAPP ?] and even a rose bud torch might help to keep object evenly heated until dropping in the oil.

It took 2 or 3 times for some larger object to come out with an even finish.

The finish depends upon how the part was de-rusted - wire wheeling leaves a gloss like finished surface, media blasting leaves a flat like finish.

The tool used to hold the part in the flame should not be a favorite - the heat/flames do not discriminate between a bolt or the tips of your Channellock needle nose pliers.

I might experiment with cold blueing on another project. Entry price seems a bit high, but with the $$ I spent on an adapter for the gauge set to fit the B tank, spark arresters, new cart (optional, but the old one weighs 55# and is a brick s house), bottle of Acetylene ....

Also, it is COLD blueing. I wouldn't be outside in >90* with flaming hot oil trying to make me the 4th of July BBQ!

Pictures tomorrow of the blackend steel parts.  ;)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 07:19:31 PM by torqueman2002 »
"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

Offline goodfellow

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Re: The CO monitor in the garage went off.
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2020, 07:39:39 PM »
What type of oil was it TM ? --

Old timers used to quench in used (i.e. full of carbon deposits) Dino-based motor oil to get a good finish. Maybe it was the modern additives that made the off-gassing such a problem for the CO detector

Offline Matt_T

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Re: The CO monitor in the garage went off.
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2020, 08:04:43 PM »
BTW - this steel blackening is not as straight forward as I thought it would be, from watching a couple of YouTube vids and reading 2 or 3 Google articles.

Small nuts, bolts, and washers are straight forward. Use enough heat OA or propane, to get object orange-cherry red and drop it into oil. I use a 'double boiler' method - 1 qt of oil in a ss restaurant prep pan, sitting in a bath of cool water nested in a larger ss prep pain. Even so, the oil/fumes may catch fire.

Larger objects, like spark arrestors, and eye shield brackets need a lot of heat - OA [MAPP ?] and even a rose bud torch might help to keep object evenly heated until dropping in the oil.

It took 2 or 3 times for some larger object to come out with an even finish.

The finish depends upon how the part was de-rusted - wire wheeling leaves a gloss like finished surface, media blasting leaves a flat like finish.

The tool used to hold the part in the flame should not be a favorite - the heat/flames do not discriminate between a bolt or the tips of your Channellock needle nose pliers.

What you're doing ain't anywhere close to the oil blacking I was taught back when everyone thought the earth was flat. Slow and steady heat and keep dipping the part back in the oil when it cooks or burns off. Shouldn't be anywhere near red heat and takes a while.

Also used to use wire to hang the parts. Either thru' a hole or wrapped somewhere that won't show once the parts are assembled.

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: The CO monitor in the garage went off.
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2020, 10:52:46 PM »
What type of oil was it TM ? --

Old timers used to quench in used (i.e. full of carbon deposits) Dino-based motor oil to get a good finish. Maybe it was the modern additives that made the off-gassing such a problem for the CO detector
Hmmm, Valvoline 10W30, synthetic.

I have some 35 year old Quaker State 40W, that's for sure Dino-base Pennsylvania crude. I'll try that.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 10:55:10 PM by torqueman2002 »
"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher

Offline torqueman2002

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Re: The CO monitor in the garage went off.
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2020, 10:54:53 PM »
BTW - this steel blackening is not as straight forward as I thought it would be, from watching a couple of YouTube vids and reading 2 or 3 Google articles.

Small nuts, bolts, and washers are straight forward. Use enough heat OA or propane, to get object orange-cherry red and drop it into oil. I use a 'double boiler' method - 1 qt of oil in a ss restaurant prep pan, sitting in a bath of cool water nested in a larger ss prep pain. Even so, the oil/fumes may catch fire.

Larger objects, like spark arrestors, and eye shield brackets need a lot of heat - OA [MAPP ?] and even a rose bud torch might help to keep object evenly heated until dropping in the oil.

It took 2 or 3 times for some larger object to come out with an even finish.

The finish depends upon how the part was de-rusted - wire wheeling leaves a gloss like finished surface, media blasting leaves a flat like finish.

The tool used to hold the part in the flame should not be a favorite - the heat/flames do not discriminate between a bolt or the tips of your Channellock needle nose pliers.

What you're doing ain't anywhere close to the oil blacking I was taught back when everyone thought the earth was flat. Slow and steady heat and keep dipping the part back in the oil when it cooks or burns off. Shouldn't be anywhere near red heat and takes a while.

Also used to use wire to hang the parts. Either thru' a hole or wrapped somewhere that won't show once the parts are assembled.
I'll try that, still more washers and bits to do.

Thanks.
"I got to show the young boys how not to do it. I haven't showed them everything not to do, yet. It's a big job!" - Otto Kilcher