Slip Knot, need you expertise on My 850 Ford overheating

[walrus]

I've thrown the parts cannon at it, New Radiator, New TStat, New Water pump, Hoses. Knocked out frost plugs to flush block, there was nothing in it, to speak of anyway. Was bush hogging yesterday and it was getting hot so I stopped, watched temps really rise once I stopped, used starter to turn engine over with key off, temps went down again but then right back up once I stopped. Could there be air in the head? that I haven't got bled out?  I have a shroud but its not on, its never had one and I never had this issue until a 4 or 5 years ago.
I think I've asked your help on this before. The parts I'm getting are China made reproductions so Tstat or whatever could be bad I suppose? What say you?

[oldnslo]

Start with a true temperature reading with a secondary measurement device.

[Matt_T]

Agreed on checking temperature. If it is definitely running hot pull the plugs and see if they look lean. That'll cause a motor to run HOT.

[slip knot]

Sounds like you've already covered the easy stuff. Double check the temp reading. I like to use a IR gun on it. quick and easy.

Those heads were problematic about getting hot and cracking but I don't think that's your problem. I would check the carb for leaning out and also check the timing. I had a problem with the advance weights hanging up and the timing being way off. Belt tight?  Did the Tstat come from a reputable place or a TSC? May need to check it for proper operation too.

[walrus]

I put a new gauge in it, before I did I stuck it in boiling water to see where 212 actually was. I'm confident the gauge is ok.  I don't see any white smoke, no antifreeze in oil. TStat came from some tractor place online. Whats a reputable Tstat?  Carb could be leaning out, Timing is on flywheel? under that little sliding door?  Tractor runs great. Starts right up, winter or summer . Doesn't over heat plowing snow or it didn't last winter. The summer heat is when I have the issue

[Rusty]

Radiator getting good air flow? I've had to stop and clean crud from them after an hour or so of Bush hogging.

My little TYM built RK plugs up fast when there's thistle in the field.

[slip knot]

yeah the timing marks are on the flywheel behind the little door. kinda hard to see. I usually mark it with chalk then throw the timing light on it.

if it was overheating prior to the Tstat replacement it may not be an issue. The Tisco parts are problematic. I get most parts from Napa and they seem to be a bit better. a 180 Tstat is pretty generic.

is the fan a pusher or puller? put your hand on the grill and see if you feel a pulling or pushing of air. My 860 with a 3 blade puller has no problems keeping cool in S.Tx with a shroud. You probably want a puller. If you got a pusher you need to blow it out backwards.
Keep the old radiator and have it cleaned and flushed its 10X better than any radiator you'll buy today.

Try running it without a radiator cap and observe the flow thru the radiator is it a good flow and do you see any bubbles? You could have a bad head gasket letting compression into the coolant?

These old machines are pretty basic. Dont overthink it. 

[walrus]

Fan pulls air thru radiator, need that in winter up here.   Think I'll take it apart today see if I can get shroud fit in there. NAPA not open today but can get Tstat tomorrow. I'll run without Tstat and see what happens.

[Snaparxon]

What happened or what were you doing with the tractor when it originally started to have this problem 4 or 5 years ago?

[walrus]

What happened or what were you doing with the tractor when it originally started to have this problem 4 or 5 years ago?

Nothing unusual, just noticed it running hot when bush hogging. We used to hay with this tractor with no problems.

[Crispycritter]

Gas or diesel?

[walrus]

Gas or diesel?

Gas, 172 cu in

[highland512]

I would check the radiator out as well. After all these years of use and hard work many of the old tractors have chafe build up on the outside and who knows what on the inside.

[Snaparxon]

What happened or what were you doing with the tractor when it originally started to have this problem 4 or 5 years ago?

Nothing unusual, just noticed it running hot when bush hogging. We used to hay with this tractor with no problems.

Any work been done on the engine months or weeks prior to the first time it ran hot?

[walrus]

What happened or what were you doing with the tractor when it originally started to have this problem 4 or 5 years ago?

Nothing unusual, just noticed it running hot when bush hogging. We used to hay with this tractor with no problems.

Any work been done on the engine months or weeks prior to the first time it ran hot?

I did engine way back when we had to use it for the farm. Probably in the mid 90s. Never had an issue until 4 or 5 years. The only thing I can think of is carb, needle and seat a victim of E10 gas. Replaced them so maybe its leaned out now? I have whole front of tractor off now. Fan belt is cracked so got that coming. Talk about a pain in the ass. Tractor has front pump for front end loader, getting the belt requires pump come off, splined shaft is beated up, coupling had bolts seized. 120 bucks to replace parts once I destroyed them getting it apart. Never seize is going on every thing on way back.
If I could post pics without a hassle I 'd post them

[slip knot]

OOFFF. I forgot yours had a FEL on it. even getting the tin off is a major PITA. Neverseize is your friend with these old machines


While you got the tin off can you look on top of the head, above the plugs. Should be a set of numbers. mine has EAF and 6090 but it could have conn and 301100. or it may be something else too. the head on my 861 is cracked and I'm trying to locate a replacement but cant find an original. I don't want a head off a 134cuin motor. ports are smaller IIRC. I'm trying to sort out the numbers.

[walrus]

OOFFF. I forgot yours had a FEL on it. even getting the tin off is a major PITA. Neverseize is your friend with these old machines


While you got the tin off can you look on top of the head, above the plugs. Should be a set of numbers. mine has EAF and 6090 but it could have conn and 301100. or it may be something else too. the head on my 861 is cracked and I'm trying to locate a replacement but cant find an original. I don't want a head off a 134cuin motor. ports are smaller IIRC. I'm trying to sort out the numbers.

Can you get aftermarket heads? probably junk but....

[slip knot]

yeah they offer some but they start at $600- $800 for a bare head.

The 172 was offered in a lot of different equipment. I've bought them out of old brush chippers and an old golf course fairway mower so they are out there. its just finding the correct ones.

[walrus]

yeah they offer some but they start at $600- $800 for a bare head.

The 172 was offered in a lot of different equipment. I've bought them out of old brush chippers and an old golf course fairway mower so they are out there. its just finding the correct ones.

Worth more than my tractor

Got fan belt on, its bitch, pulley bolts have to just so or belt won't fit in between pulley and frame. Got shroud on Radiator and installed. While Radiator wasn't that dirty there was quite a bit of crap on the lower portion , pressure washer took it out and then air blow gun to get rest. Got cowl sitting on it, not going to bolt it in until pump is back on. parts won't be here until Friday at earliest.

Looked for numbers on head, are # above spark plugs. Didn't see anything on there?

[slip knot]

My mistake. the numbers will be on the opposite side probably hidden under the muffler. No big deal.

[walrus]

My mistake. the numbers will be on the opposite side probably hidden under the muffler. No big deal.

I have full exhaust so no can see that side.

[walrus]

I'm thinking of looking at 1951 841 with Elanco 4 wheel drive.  Never heard of such a thing. It has a loader. Haven't talked money, but I assume its pretty rare?? Anyone know anything about them? Read a few things about them like they aren't maneuverable, I assume they don't steer well?  Not sure what kind of tranny it has but driveshaft comes out of side of tranny, banjo is offset to one side big time.

[slip knot]

Never seen one in the wild. I would be very careful in looking it over. I would imagine parts are NLA on it.  But if you get it take lots of pics.

[strik9]

Early ag fwd usually means big turning  circle.  Also can mean if they are not relatively common in the used market parts are unavailable long ago. 

   Get a base model if possible in ancient stuff.  Parts are easier.

[walrus]

Its not to far from here. After sleeping on it I doubt I would buy it unless its really cheap which I doubt it will be. The guy says his dad is 3rd owner. He posted a couple pics but it was almost dark when he took them.  Looks in decent shape for an almost 70 yr old machine.  Think I'd buy a newer John Deere with a 3 cyl Yanmar diesel if I went to a 4 wheel drive or a Kubota

[walrus]

Got shaft and coupling today, put them in, bolted  Hydraulic pump back on, hooked hoses. Started it up after adding antifreeze. Watched temp rise, hit 210 and then saw Tstat open and temp dropped to 160 or so(180 degree Tstat). Shut it down to check coolant level, started it back up, got hose and added water. its clearly circulating water, no exhaust in radiator(head gasket not blown). Once full it idled for awhile and stayed below Tstat temp. Shroud definitely changes the way air blows back toward the engine.  I felt that right off. Tomorrow I'll put bush hog on see what it does.

[slip knot]

Hopefully the fan shroud resolves your overheat problem.

[Uncle Buck]

A fan shroud can make a big difference in how efficiently a cools an engine.

[walrus]

Got it back together finally, back issues slowed me down. Started it up and drove over to pick something up in FEL bucket. Temp gauge was all over the place, fluttering I guess? Not sure if thats a lousy gauge or air in system? Saw Tstat open, down temps went, then back up, down and so on. Finally it seemed to settle down as I let it idle in front of shop for awhile. Hung below 180 which is TStat temp. Could there be a blockage in head so coolant isn't filling head therefore not covering temp probe. Simple mechanical gauge so not sure how it could flutter?  This shouldn't be so difficult. Still haven't tried to really work the tractor to see what happens

[slip knot]

I don't know about blockage but I have seen some of the industrial units with a bypass port located in the center of the head, between #3and #4 plugs that was routed back to the water pump. From what I recall it was an issue of coolant not flowing enough in that area so the added line dumped coolant back to the pump for faster coolant flow thru that area. I've never seen this mod on ag tractors tho, just industrial units.

Put it to work and see how it acts.

[walrus]

What ever I did worked I'd guess the shroud but not sure. You can watch the Tstat open, temps drops and then comes back to 180 and stays there. Bush hogged for an hour or so, it would have climbed after awhile before.  it wasn't as hot out but still 80 or so. Thanks for the help, the Ford lives to work again.

[slip knot]

sweet. ya cant keep and old ford down. 

[walrus]

sweet. ya cant keep and old ford down. 

One more question, the old TStat had some kind of small valve in it, maybe a 1/8 hole with some kind pressure actuated valve. I'm assuming it allowed small amount of coolant to go in one direction before TStat opened. New TStat didn't have that, should I drill hole in new TStat?

[slip knot]

I never have? I would think it just aids in purging air from the system. Probably be ok without drilling the new one.