How common are PROAMERICA wrenches ?

[hickory n Steel]

Ok so late last night ( only around 8:30pm, but late when you've been up since 3:00am ) looking for wrenches when I stumbled on a great condition 12pc PROAMERICA SAE combo set for $42 +shipping.
The listing says PROAMERICA and the brand is listed as PROAMERICA and they looked great so I ordered them.
The problem is that I didn't read deeply enough into the description and didn't catch that there are 3 fillers, 1 Thorsen and two Williams.
If the condition on them is good enough I'll get by just fine, but I'll never be happy with them unless I have a complete set.

The 15/16 is a Thorsen, the 1/4 and 3/8 are Williams.


So are PROAMERICA wrenches common enough that I might be able to to find these before I go crazy ?
I'll probably keep them either way but I wanna know what I've gotten myself into.

[goodfellow]

IIRC Pro-America is the company that started out as KAL tools. Pro-America are rare -- i.e., they were not main stream commercial sellers, but they did have a slew of government contracts and sold lots of hand tools to Uncle Sam. They have a web site -- call and ask whether the wrenches are still manufactured, or available at retail. The site only lists pliers at this time --

https://www.proamericatools.com/main.sc

[oldnslo]

Old post. Non GG website, but here's one possible 15/16 source.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125908

[goodfellow]

Here's the 3/8" -- but kinda pricey

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PRO-AMERICA-PREMIUM-TOOLS-3-8-COMBINATION-WRENCH-12-POINT-2012-M2329-2/401155106930?hash=item5d66b52872:g:8BUAAOSwWdZZaPHf:rk:22:pf:0

[hickory n Steel]

Here's the 3/8" -- but kinda pricey

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PRO-AMERICA-PREMIUM-TOOLS-3-8-COMBINATION-WRENCH-12-POINT-2012-M2329-2/401155106930?hash=item5d66b52872:g:8BUAAOSwWdZZaPHf:rk:22:pf:0

I actually found that same one for $7 on Amazon but these are a Matte chrome that I ordered.


I suppose I just might have to stop being so picky and deal with the set as is and gradually find the 3 wrenches I need.
In the meantime, at least the 3 fillers are of quality make.

The pictures aren't that great, and I suppose that's why I didn't realize 3 didn't match.

[lauver]

H&S,

I find a goodly number of used ProAmerica tools in my area.  Probably because I'm near a large Army base.  Also, a lot of the tools I find have military-looking inventory numbers etched into them. 

I'll keep my eyes open for the combo wrenches you are missing.  It looks like the wrench set you bought have satin finish with polished heads, correct?

[hickory n Steel]

H&S,

I find a goodly number of used ProAmerica tools in my area.  Probably because I'm near a large Army base.  Also, a lot of the tools I find have military-looking inventory numbers etched into them. 

I'll keep my eyes open for the combo wrenches you are missing.  It looks like the wrench set you bought have satin finish with polished heads, correct?

Yep satin with polished heads
And thanks for the offer to keep an eye out for me .

[Rusty]

At one time they were common military surplus.

[lauver]

Rusty,

Yes, and I have found a lot of KAL tools at the same location.

[hickory n Steel]

Rusty,

Yes, and I have found a lot of KAL tools at the same location.

I figured they'd have to be semi common if I have a PROAMERICA extension and pair of KAL pliers.

[hickory n Steel]

My wrenches got here and I'm blown away.
First of all, the Thorsen 15/16 which is in just as minty of condition as everything else ( unused but some light toolbox wear ) is the only filler piece.
This set never came with a 1/4" or 3/8, this was a Williams doe that was thrown in, and is also in minty condition.
I actually got 13 wrenches

The roll they came in is super thick and sturdy as well, it's unmarked so I'm assuming it was not a civilian sale item.


Sorry for the hello Kitty pic, but the overcast and rain is hindering me.

[hickory n Steel]

I think some of these wrenches were use once, and others absolutely not at all.
This is the open end of the 1" and the Thorsen 15/16.


Even the little Williams doe they tossed in is as minty ( minus the original owner putting his initials on it )

[four.cycle]

Proamerica Tools, Baldwin Park, California currently offers only pliers in its product lineup.
They are not really concerned with sales directly to the consumer, because the great majority of their product is made for private-label accounts (Tekton, Proto, and others.)
KAL Tools is essentially one and the same company, but KAL is now strictly government/military contract stuff.
The Proamerica wrenches (and most of the socket sets) that you'll find on Ebay are generally military surplus.
As far as product quality, I picked up a set of Proamerica short-profile double-end metric box wrenches a couple years ago, and they appear to be pretty well made - fit and finish isn't as snazzy as a Snap-on or an S-K or an Armstrong, but they'll get the job done.

If you are searching for a particular item on Ebay, search both "proamerica" and "pro america" - because of the way the name is stamped on the tool you will find listings both ways.

[hickory n Steel]

Proamerica Tools, Baldwin Park, California currently offers only pliers in its product lineup.
They are not really concerned with sales directly to the consumer, because the great majority of their product is made for private-label accounts (Tekton, Proto, and others.)
KAL Tools is essentially one and the same company, but KAL is now strictly government/military contract stuff.
The Proamerica wrenches (and most of the socket sets) that you'll find on Ebay are generally military surplus.
As far as product quality, I picked up a set of Proamerica short-profile double-end metric box wrenches a couple years ago, and they appear to be pretty well made - fit and finish isn't as snazzy as a Snap-on or an S-K or an Armstrong, but they'll get the job done.

If you are searching for a particular item on Ebay, search both "proamerica" and "pro america" - because of the way the name is stamped on the tool you will find listings both ways.

Thanks.
All I really need is the 15/16 since as it turns out there never was a 1/4 or 3/8 in my set, so my search may not be too long.

Now this roll is a pretty bulky thing so if I end up with a pegboard arrangement when I build my workbench I may want those two sizes to match my set.
I'm getting to far ahead of myself though.

[hickory n Steel]

I just found this in the box, I'd say I'm probably right about these being military surplus .

They came from San Diego , so Camp Pendleton maybe ?

[hickory n Steel]

 Apparently they're not too uncommon on eBay, I just scored an 11pc doe metric set for $30 shipped.
They're used and there's a few spots of surface rust here and there , but that should be easy to take care of and these will go great with the SAE combo set that came today.

[hickory n Steel]

They seem like they'll be about as nice as my SAE combo's, not as minty but they should be good enough for me.

[four.cycle]

That Proamerica set you are looking at is one of many that seller has been peddling one at a time at that price -
$19.99 + $10.90 shipping "buy now"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/382721995732

There are several other Proamerica wrench sets listed on Ebay as well - a few double-end box wrench sets - unfortunately not a lot of metric stuff.

[hickory n Steel]

That Proamerica set you are looking at is one of many that seller has been peddling one at a time at that price -
$19.99 + $10.90 shipping "buy now"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/382721995732

There are several other Proamerica wrench sets listed on Ebay as well - a few double-end box wrench sets - unfortunately not a lot of metric stuff.

Oh I already ordered those yesterday, are you saying there might be something shady going on ?

[highland512]

He is probably buying auction lots off of government surplus auction sites and selling them on the flebay. I ran into a similar deal several years ago, scrap buyer won a scrap iron lot in a DoO auction. Turned out the scrap was dump truck loads of tools, we where carrying home buckets full of tools for pennies on the dollar. I have a few KAL and PROAMERICA pieces and thats where they come from. Most all surplus government tools have ID numbers scribed into them our a grinder spot where the ID was removed for disposal. 

[four.cycle]

Oh I already ordered those yesterday, are you saying there might be something shady going on ?

Not at all. Just pointing out that the seller obviously has more than one of those sets.

[hickory n Steel]

Oh I already ordered those yesterday, are you saying there might be something shady going on ?

Not at all. Just pointing out that the seller obviously has more than one of those sets.

Oh ok, maybe that's why they were a good deal.

I'm glad I was given the advice to look for sleeper brands because I had originally figured " I'll just get some Craftsmans, they made so many of them they should be cheap ",  boy was I wrong  .

If I wanted to spend that much id get a new S-K or Wright set

[hickory n Steel]

They're not scheduled to arrive today but the left the regional distribution facility 50 miles away an hour or so before I left for work this morning and should likely be available by the time I get off work hopefully.
Theres also a spokeshave I ordered that left an hour before that.

[hickory n Steel]

Got off work to find a couple package slips in the PO Box.

Surprisingly there was a roll with these which I didn't expect.
There's 19 different sizes in all, starting at 6mm and ending at a whopping 32mm.

[lauver]

HnS,

Well, it looks like you got metric wrenches covered.  Good move on your part.  You done good

Think how many combo wrenches it would take to cover this same range.  That's the beauty & efficiency of DOE's   

[hickory n Steel]

HnS,

Well, it looks like you got metric wrenches covered.  Good move on your part.  You done good

Think how many combo wrenches it would take to cover this same range.  That's the beauty & efficiency of DOE's   

Thanks
It definitely does seem to be an efficient set.
There's some strange ones though.
For example there's say an 8 mm on one wrench and another 8 on the next wrench up, with a larger head of course .
I suppose this would add versatility if  at any point I felt I needed just a bit more leverage to get a fastener off, it only happens with 4 of the smaller ones and the difference is marginal at best though.

[goodfellow]

Not uncommon for DOE sets to have the same sizes on several different wrenches in the set - especially in the metrics

[Uncle Buck]

Never seen, nor heard of this brand myself.

[hickory n Steel]

Never seen, nor heard of this brand myself.

Never ? They're By Kal tools and are I'm told mostly made for contracts GOVT or otherwise.

[goodfellow]

Never seen, nor heard of this brand myself.

Never ? They're By Kal tools and are I'm told mostly made for contracts GOVT or otherwise.

KAL was a bigger brand in the 60s and 70s -- besides a full line of hand tools they also offered budget automotive test equipment and IIRC some basic homeowner grade body repair tools and kits.

That said, I don't think KAL ever produced anything in any of their factories, because they had none. All they were was a brand that contracted with US, Korean, Japanese (and I also think Taiwanese) manufcaturers to make the stuff. I have KAL wrenches from the US, Japan, and Korea -- damn good stuff, but very basic fit/finish.  I used to buy them on ebay for very little money and outfit all my family fleet toolkits with them.

One think I will add -- the Korean wrenches are awesome. Like many of you guys if I have to do some questionable torquing with a pipe or hammer on a wrench i tend to grab the cheap stuff. Well, I once used a 1" KAL combo and put a five foot cheater over it to loosen a control arm bushing on a truck -- the damn thing took it and asked for more. Needless to say I was pretty impressed with KAL's Korean tool line -- whoever the manufacturer was; they produced a great product.

[hickory n Steel]

Never seen, nor heard of this brand myself.

Never ? They're By Kal tools and are I'm told mostly made for contracts GOVT or otherwise.

KAL was a bigger brand in the 60s and 70s -- besides a full line of hand tools they also offered budget automotive test equipment and IIRC some basic homeowner grade body repair tools and kits.

That said, I don't think KAL ever produced anything in any of their factories, because they had none. All they were was a brand that contracted with US, Korean, Japanese (and I also think Taiwanese) manufcaturers to make the stuff. I have KAL wrenches from the US, Japan, and Korea -- damn good stuff, but very basic fit/finish.  I used to buy them on ebay for very little money and outfit all my family fleet toolkits with them.

One think I will add -- the Korean wrenches are awesome. Like many of you guys if I have to do some questionable torquing with a pipe or hammer on a wrench i tend to grab the cheap stuff. Well, I once used a 1" KAL combo and put a five foot cheater over it to loosen a control arm bushing on a truck -- the damn thing took it and asked for more. Needless to say I was pretty impressed with KAL's Korean tool line -- whoever the manufacturer was; they produced a great product.

Good to know
I've got a 6" pair of KAL Japan linesman style pliers ( utility pliers I guess ) and they're a damn good tool.
The fit and finish on them is actually excellent.
I wonder what the deal is with PROAMERICA then, I'm assuming they have a factory otherwise there's be no need for their name to be on tools suplkied to the GOVT.

[goodfellow]

I doubt there were/are any Pro-America tool factories. They probably contracted to existing manufacturers to produce a product to a specific spec and design. 

[hickory n Steel]

I doubt there were/are any Pro-America tool factories. They probably contracted to existing manufacturers to produce a product to a specific spec and design.

Seems weird that the government would contract to someone who doesn't actually make the stuff, but I'm sure it's not impossible.

Btw I noticed that the Thorsen 15/16 which came in my set follows the exact same model numbers, ie it has the exact same model number that the PROAMERICA 15/16 does.

I wonder if Thorsen could be a potential manufacturer ?

[goodfellow]

If the government buys large quantities in bulk, I doubt many manufacturers would be capable of meeting the demand, and still supply their commercial and retail customers. KAL/Pro-America management was probably well plugged into the government contracting and procurement system and managed to take the time and effort to craft a blanket procurement for their own designs by subcontracting those designs to manufacturers across the country, and in many cases across the globe.

[eborcim]

Sears sold them for a while.  They are Craftsman quality before the tailspin era.  I have a metric set from 1991.  I bought them for the name but they did turn out to be a good solid set.

[hickory n Steel]

If the government buys large quantities in bulk, I doubt many manufacturers would be capable of meeting the demand, and still supply their commercial and retail customers. KAL/Pro-America management was probably well plugged into the government contracting and procurement system and managed to take the time and effort to craft a blanket procurement for their own designs by subcontracting those designs to manufacturers across the country, and in many cases across the globe.

Makes sense.

[Uncle Buck]

Never seen, nor heard of this brand myself.

Never ? They're By Kal tools and are I'm told mostly made for contracts GOVT or otherwise.

Nope never. Does not mean they are not fine tools, just a brand I have never seen, nor heard of.

[hickory n Steel]

Never seen, nor heard of this brand myself.

Never ? They're By Kal tools and are I'm told mostly made for contracts GOVT or otherwise.

Nope never. Does not mean they are not fine tools, just a brand I have never seen, nor heard of.

I know you weren't putting them down or anything.

I'm not surprised at all that you haven't heard of them before, it seems they're just generally not a well known brand which is how I got them as cheap as I did.
I was only vaguely aware of the brand myself.
I think I had a PROAMERICA extension laying around somewhere but that's it.

[four.cycle]

No, they were not made by Thorsen. Thorsen's been out of business almost 30 years now.
Proamerica is made by Proamerica.
KAL is made by KAL.
Forging facility is in Pennsylvania somewhere.

The reason the part numbers are the same is because a LOT of tool manufacturers use the same formula for assigning part number to sockets and wrenches: the last two digits of the part number are the size in 32nds (on SAE tools.) (i.e., 1008 wrench = 1/4")

[hickory n Steel]

No, they were not made by Thorsen. Thorsen's been out of business almost 30 years now.
Proamerica is made by Proamerica.
KAL is made by KAL.
Forging facility is in Pennsylvania somewhere.

The reason the part numbers are the same is because a LOT of tool manufacturers use the same formula for assigning part number to sockets and wrenches: the last two digits of the part number are the size in 32nds (on SAE tools.) (i.e., 1008 wrench = 1/4")

Thanks for the info.