Author Topic: CA mag size law unconstitutional  (Read 2399 times)

Offline DeadNutz

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CA mag size law unconstitutional
« on: August 14, 2020, 08:12:38 PM »
The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that California's 10 round magazine limit is unconstitutional. We'll have to see if CA wants to appeal the ruling to the US Supreme Court or not. That would be their only chance of keeping the law in effect a little longer.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/federal-appeals-court-californias-ban-2nd-amendment

Offline gtermini

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Re: CA mag size law unconstitutional
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2020, 12:24:01 AM »
Here is a good breakdown of the current situation I copied from another site. Credit to 1DarkShadowBlade on Reddit https://old.reddit.com/r/gunpolitics/comments/i9ydft/californians_this_is_not_freedom_week_20_yet_xpost/

Quote
Ok, already seeing misinformation going out here (at least Reno pulled down his video).

It seems a majority of people here putting up posts, videos, and others are up-voting misinformed comments whoi are not actually READING.

It is not hard to get this information guys... You can see the ruling on the document HERE where it says under conclusion: "We AFFIRM the district court’s grant of summary judgment for plaintiffs-appellees."

What does this mean?

It means that the 9th circuit has AFFIRMED Judge Benitez's summary judgement. Now if there was no stay on this summary judgement this means that the judgement stays in effect. HOWEVER because Benitez put a STAY on HIS OWN JUDGEMENT that summary judgement is NOT in effect. This means it is NOT legal to purchase new magazines YET.

What would need to be done to get Freedom Week 2.0 started?

Judge Benitez would have to LIFT his own stay. This would allow the summary judgement to be in effect once again.

Will Benitez lift his stay?

My crystal ball says no because if he does then the DOJ will ask for an "emergency" en-banc appeal and they will get a stay written by the 9th (based on the 3 judges handling these stays, they change every month) and you can bet it will not be as lenient as Benitez's current stay is.

tl;dr The ruling is still stayed because Benitez has NOT lifted his stay nor has the requirements been met to lift that stay (i.e. appeals process being completed). All that happened was the 9th agreeing with Benitez's SUMMARY JUDGEMENT (which is currently stayed by Benitez himself).

Once again, stop spreading misinformation. You guys are going to get people who may not know any better in serious hot water and THEY will be paying the legal consequences... It could happen to you or someone you know. Please do not be careless and stop writing without thinking... We got really good news here, let's wait a little bit and see how Benitez AND the CA DOJ respond to this.

Edit: EVEN Chuck Michel is publicly saying this is not "Freedom Week II" yet. For those who only sit on this sub and have no idea who he is, he is the President of the CRPA.

Edit 2: If you want to hear my theory on what will happen now it is that Benitez will not touch his stay unless the 9th denies an en-banc hearing or they approve the en-banc hearing and then affirm Benitez's judgement.

Edit 3: The Original Stay issued last year can be found here clearly states:

    THEREFORE, IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that the Judgment is stayed in part pending final resolution of the appeal from the Judgment

What does "final resolution of the appeal from the Judgement" mean? It means that either the state does not try to appeal the 9th's affirmation (or they run out of time to appeal the decision (very unlikely)) OR the 9th circuit denies en-banc AND SCOTUS denies cert. Currently the appeals process is still open, it is not final.

Edit 4: Here is a post from FPC (Firearms Policy Coalition) basically reiterating what this post already says

Edit 5: "Ok so you said a lot of stuff, what's going to happen now and when will it happen?" -> My prediction is that the state is going to file for an en-banc hearing and that Judge Benitez won't be touching his injunction. I can imagine this will be filed within a week or two and the 9th will sit on it "pending the decision of Young v Hawaii".

Edit 6: "Why are there some companies saying they'll ship? How is that legal?" -> Technically it is not illegal to sell a magazine of any size to a California resident so long as that sale is not conducted within California and that resident does not import the magazine into California. Realistically speaking the only one who's really taking the legal risk of purchasing these magazines online and having them shipped to California right now is YOU. You are going to be facing more liability than the companies will (especially considering most of those companies aren't even in California). Remember those companies have very likely retained big law firms and you (likely) don't have that kind of money to retain that level of legal support.

Edit 7: Here is some useful information regarding how soon these appeals must be filed.

    Becerra has 14 days from August 14, 2020 to file an appeal for an en banc hearing. If he doesn't do this it is possible for a Judge to call a vote for an en banc hearing 7 days after that without the appeal, it is also possible an extension can be granted. There are other factors to take into account here but the main point is that if the process to hear an en banc has not been started by August 28, 2020 then either an extension has to be granted or one of the judges has to start the process. This means that September 4, 2020 is the last day we can hear anything regarding an en banc hearing so if nothing has started (i.e. they have not begun the process for voting on whether to hear it or not) then that would be mean the state loses out on its chance to appeal to the 9th (this is good for us).
    In order for the 9th to approve an en-banc hearing at least 51% of the court has to approve the appeal to hear the case. This means that 14 judges have to vote yes. There are currently 16 judges who were nominated by a Democrat President (this includes Thomas). The 9th typically has a maximum 35 days from the day the appeal is filed to vote on it (14 days to vote after distribution which has a max of 21 days).
    But wait there's more! The state still has the option of appealing to the Supreme Court (we'll see if they bother to hear this one given it's coming from an anti-gun state. A petition is due either 90 days after the decision (so from today that would be November 12, 2020) or 90 days after the 9th denies to hear the case en-banc (and this could be up to 35 days after the appeal is filed).
    So when is the absolute last chance for the state to file an appeal for anything? By my current calculations and accounting for the maximum amount of days listed without accounting for any extensions (because there is no way to know) the day that Becerra will have his last chance to file an appeal is January 7, 2021 (this could happen sooner if the 9th acts quick and denies the en banc hearing sooner). SCOTUS is not required to respond to cert. on or before this day it is merely the final day that Becerra can file a petition for cert. After this day the appeals process becomes finalized for this case with the 9th's 2 - 1 opinion becoming final. As a result it would result in a "permanent" Freedom Week 2.0 for magazines as Benitez's stay would be lifted.
    "This is too much to read and I'm confused, if we don't take into account any unpredictable factors (i.e 9th granting extensions) when is the last day that this appeals process can be continued in any way?" January 7, 2021 is going to be the last day Becerra has to file any sort of petition for an appeal in regards to this case given that the 9th takes their time to deny an en banc appeal. If for whatever reason Becerra does NOT file an en banc appeal AND/OR the 9th does not call for an en banc vote on their own (this can happen even if Becerra does not file an appeal) then November 12, 2020 is going to be the last day Becerra can file an appeal.

I will try to keep updated as much as possible and post here with the relevant information.

Edit 8: Largely the same as above but this time I found a flowchart made by Michelle & Assosciates regarding how the en-banc process works. You can view this En-Banc Flowchart here.

Offline DeadNutz

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Re: CA mag size law unconstitutional
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2020, 10:34:33 AM »
Thanks for posting that Greyson as it lays it out pretty clear.

Offline highland512

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Re: CA mag size law unconstitutional
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2020, 08:26:10 AM »
I bet there was a lot of mags "found" over the weekend.  :))