Author Topic: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out  (Read 22071 times)

Offline bonneyman

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After almost 40 years of tool buying I've amassed a whole lotta stuff. When surveying my truck and shop I realize alot of items gather so much dust. I wish I had known at 20 what I know now. So I thought I would go through my hand and power tools and distill down my collection to the bare essentials. What I use everyday, what I could do without, what is versatile, what is fluff. Now I'm not nuking anyone's tools. Obviously everyone has their own requirements, and they won't line up exactly with mine. Nor am I talking about collectibles. It's just - if I were giving recommendations to a young man or woman about what minimal tools one should have - this would be that advice. My life has been one of fixing cars, owning a home, fixing bicycles and lawn mowers and appliances - plus doing HVAC for 30+ years. Some of my choices will seem quite odd, while others almost everyone will understand the need.

So, for folks just starting out the cost of assembling a set of tools can seem overwhelming, and the way tool trucks get people into debt with all sorts of stuff they might use once a year - this list is for them. I'll be assuming (yes, I know what that means!) the person will be buying new, and most probably sets of some kind or another. While I would highly recommend buying good, used tools, most people can't afford the time to spend putting together a set of tools one piece at a time.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 10:02:33 PM by bonneyman »

Offline bonneyman

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Re: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2018, 09:59:55 PM »
First off - what brand?

If you're just the average homeowner, you don't need truck brand level tools. As a professional who works his tools hard everyday, you might have to purchase those.
For the longest time I laughed at Harbor Freight, but - myself having started years ago with Craftsman and their lifetime warranty - HF these days isn't such a bad deal. For bare bones price, they are a place to consider. A step up would be Gearwrench and Tekton (and this latter brand is making more and more stuff stateside). S-K is a bit pricey but they, too, are returning production to the U.S.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 10:03:37 PM by bonneyman »

Offline bonneyman

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Re: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2018, 10:12:38 PM »
Wrenches

One probably should have both SAE and metric, but with so many things tending toward metric you should probably start out with that.
Basic:A set of long, shallow offset 12 pt double box ends, a set of shorty, deep offset 12 pt double box ends, and a set of angle wrenches.

A step up: A set of ratcheting box wrenches

I've found combo wrenches to be 50 percent wasted. Most open ends don't grab well enough anyway, and a long combo puts too much torque on the typical open end and they slip. (Double open ends are a total waste of time.) Better to have an enhanced broached box end to get tough nuts off - a long shallow offset for real torque (and less sideways slipping), and shorty deep offset boxes for tight and restricted areas. For those jobs that require an open end an angle wrench will do the job, and second as a good wrench when restricted turning is required.

Ratcheting box wrenches really help speed removal, most offer enhanced broaching, and come in a variety of styles by almost every manufacturer. Though I've never had the need for flex-head styles alot of jobs now seem to require them.

Offline strik9

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Re: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2018, 10:20:38 PM »
Your classes of tools are not far off mine.

General home use
plumbing
bike
sparky
cement
paintin' stuff

None are really much space and most cross over a bit.  I only work on cars at work so mech tools at home are mainly my bling in deep storage.

   Nothing dearly costly nor rows of red tin condos.    All 2nd hand off brand stuff in big ticket items and well used before me usually.  Some bought broken or missing bits and repaired.
    I am only out to impress my wife with results and not with huge piles of top brand tools.

  What to suggest to a younger guy getting a start?  Educate yourself on how to do the jobs right with basic tools and buy my overflow so I can cash out of unused stuff.  Lol!
  More seriously buy a solid set of base tools to cover needs and learn how to use them well.  A lot can be done with few tools.

Offline DeadNutz

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Re: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2018, 10:24:45 PM »
I feel combos are a necessity in the box. I used a 3/4" and 1" yesterday to take the torch apart to make sure the rosebud and welding tip fir. I couldn't have done that with a box end or socket. If you are going to deal with air hoses or gas hoses you need an open end or at least a flare wrench. Just way too many needs for an open end or combo to not have them.

Offline bonneyman

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Re: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2018, 10:33:06 PM »
Sockets and ratchets

A 3/8" socket set will handle most home needs. Unless one does heavy auto work they won't need 1/2", and 1/4" stuff can be done with nutdrivers and the like.
For years I had only an SAE set of shallow and deeps, and a shallow set of metrics. With the more modern semi-deep sockets I'd say you could do 85-90% of your daily needs with them. And though I've used alot of 12 points, I think 6 points slip less and last longer and handle being dirty better. Since sockets are a wear item they will eventually wear out and need replacing, so easy access to the brand and a store that keeps things stocked is a big plus. Sears used to be that to a T, but they're on the way out.
Ratchets - I like round knurled handles with low back drag and about 40 teeth. Much easier to hold than ergonomic and smooth handle styles - but on the other hand harder to clean. Also like rats that are easily disassembled with circlips or springs only - no screws to lose or strip out. You want a quality ratchet - for decades I had one S-K 45170 roundhead. Made since 1934, still made, rebuild kits still available (but I've never done mine). if you only wnat one then this is the one to get.

Other things I didn't miss and could do without - fine tooth rats, quick release and flex-head versions. Just never needed them. But having a pear head 24 tooth for HD beater use wouldn't hurt.

A decent collection of extensions is necessary, and usually comes in a socket set. (The lengths and number are dependent on your usage.) A solid universal joint is also good, but breaker bars, sliding T-handles, and so many other "accessories" just take up space.

Offline bonneyman

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Re: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2018, 10:38:17 PM »
Pliers
You need a slip joint 6", a needlenose 6", a locking plier 7", and a waterpump style adjustable 8".

Slip joints are just a necessity for grabbing things, a ViseGrip-kind of locking is essential, and I've preferred Knipex alligator adjustable pliers to Channelocks. The angle jaws with those let you turn iron pipe and nuts better.

One can almost combine the slip joint and waterpump in what used to be called a parrot-head plier. But seeing they're no longer made you'd probably have to go with the separate ones.

Get a Pistol-grip style of needlenose. Especially helpful when reaching into an electrical box - because you can see where the tips are! And they help with increased grip, too. Like these:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/7-in-Pistol-Grip-Long-Nose-Pliers-C7CRPG/203683914
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 11:12:55 PM by bonneyman »

Offline bonneyman

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Re: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2018, 10:40:46 PM »
Screwdrivers

Screwdrivers are a pet peeve of mine. So many brands, so many sets with so many lengths and tip sizes and handle shapes. Good golly one could go nuts searching for the right drivers! :-[

While most all tools I recommend buying sets, with screwdrivers I strongly recommend piecing together a collection yourself one at a time. I mean, I've never seen the need for a 40-50 piece driver set (and yet I'm assembling such a set of Proto yellow handles! call me a hypocrite!!!)  :D

One thing this Proto set has taught me is I almost always grab for the same ones. The others get picked up to put to a use, then get hung back on the hook and I return to my favorites. I know I'll get a ton of flack for this , but, here's the only screwdrivers you'll need.

Right off the bat, get a quality 6-in-1 reversible bit driver. In fact, get two or three and put them in different places around the house. You'll use them! (Enderes makes about the best drivers around).

Phillips - 11" shank #2, 6" shank #2, 3" shank #1, pocket clip #0,

Standard - 10" shank 3/8", 6" shank 3/8", 3" shank 1/4", 1" shank 5/16" stubby, 2" shank 1/8" pocket clip,

Cabinet styles, #3 and #4 phillips, clutch type, even alot of torx sizes most folks will never use. So why buy this overflowing set containing dozens of drivers you don't need?

I'm going to put these things together for a pic, as it's easier to show them than to describe them.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 11:10:01 PM by bonneyman »

Offline J.A.F.E.

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Re: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2018, 10:44:35 PM »
A lot of answers since I started this so some may seem redundant.

Not an easy question to answer and so much of this revolves around intangibles or specific use. I work on (my own) cars but many don't so that would influence a lot of choices and I also work on a most everything else so I have a pretty big range of stuff. Preference comes into play - I use a lot of combo wrenches and DBE but don't use OE's unless I need to. Some reach for OE first. A saltus wrench is favored by many and a gimmick to others.

Having said all that for just a let's start somewhere a basic set of 3/8 sockets and a ratchet or five plus some extensions in standard length and deep from about 9 to about 19mm but how much you need inch sizes is an open question. A good set of combo wrenches in the same range. A ball peen, and claw hammer, Channellock/waterpump style pliers, screwdrivers, maybe a magnetic bit screwdriver, Torx drivers or bits for the magnetic, a set of Allen keys to at least 7mm, maybe a set of regular slip joints, a needle nose, some small clamps, a good metal file, a really good hacksaw and a good tool box with some room seems like a pretty good start. The rest, including a vise, I'd probably say get as you need unless someone is starting in a trade or specific hobby.

As to brands so many good ones like Williams, Wright, SK, and many more I'd say mix and match as prices and preferences strike unless the need is immediate. I'd personally avoid HF (although in interest of disclosure I do have some) because I'm a bit USAcentric. OK maybe more than a bit.

A lot of sets do not seem much cheaper than open stock so it might be better to buy singles than sets. Or buying the 10 sizes you start with may be cheaper than a larger set with sizes you probably won't use. Snap-on is usually the sum of retail prices on sets and often the pouch or container is charged in as well and other brands do the same so it pays to check. I believe SK and especially traditional Craftsman are almost always cheaper by the set.
People who confuse etymology and entomology bug me in ways I can’t put into words.

Offline bonneyman

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Re: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2018, 10:49:08 PM »
Electric meter

Everyone has to have an electric meter. One may need a specialized one for their chosen occupation, but a simple meter can be used just about anywhere. I'm not a big fan of high tech, but a wide range digital clamp meter is a must. So long as it reads AC and DC volts, ohms for resistance, and AC amps - you're set for most jobs around the house and car.
You gotta watch the battery level, and they don't like being dropped or getting wet, but with reasonable care they should last a good while. And they're not expensive. I have a Taiwanese-made one that cost me $100 thirty years ago. One with very similar features is dirt cheap at Harbor Freight. And pawn shops are typically overstocked with quality meters that people down on their luck turned into them. Worth checking out.


Offline bonneyman

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Re: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2018, 10:53:36 PM »
Electric drill

For occasional home use an inexpensive corded drill can be had most anywhere. I prefer corded drills because I've gone through so many batteries on cordless ones - or they die at THE worst time - I just stick with corded drills. One with a 3/8" keyless chuck will do most everything you want to do. 1/4" is a bit underpowered for some jobs, 1/2" is way too big for DIY use.

I don't know if any corded drills are still USA made, but I could be mistaken. If you don't need the drill TODAY, buy and older used USA one at a pawn shop or off of ebay.

Offline J.A.F.E.

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Re: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2018, 11:46:03 PM »
A meter may or may not be something I'd recommend to a beginner and it depends on the person, what they want to do. I agree it's a good basic tool to have but I know some (especially my former boss, the troll) who do not know how to properly use one and misuse the results to justify their opinions or desired results. In other words it can be dangerous in some hands.

In the trolls case he can not use the Ohms function as the concept is beyond him so doesn't have a clue why it's important and what it can show and he has no clear understanding of what voltage is and can not differentiate between a voltage changing magnitude and polarity on one wire and staying neutral/ground on the other.
People who confuse etymology and entomology bug me in ways I can’t put into words.

Offline hickory n Steel

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Re: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2018, 12:07:21 AM »
Buying the screwdrivers individually is a good idea, I've got a few sets and definitely find myself using the same general sizes or even specific drivers from the sets.

my sets weren't expensive so it was worth it to be able to figure out what drivers I needed through use, but I definitely don't like how many sets favor standard sizes over Phillips.
I'm using standards more and more than I have in the past but still not as much as Phillips.


 Even though I'm mostly still starting out, I have been tinkering fro over 10 years.
In those years of tinkering I have found a decent 1/4" bit driver to be handy ,while I would stay away from inexpensive precision bit drivers becsuse the bits are butter soft and just do not hold up.
Regular precision screwdrivers will often have harder tips than their inexpensive bit driver counterparts.

« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 12:21:18 AM by hickory n Steel »
Always lookin' to learn

Offline hickory n Steel

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Re: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2018, 12:12:51 AM »
Electric drill

For occasional home use an inexpensive corded drill can be had most anywhere. I prefer corded drills because I've gone through so many batteries on cordless ones - or they die at THE worst time - I just stick with corded drills. One with a 3/8" keyless chuck will do most everything you want to do. 1/4" is a bit underpowered for some jobs, 1/2" is way too big for DIY use.

I don't know if any corded drills are still USA made, but I could be mistaken. If you don't need the drill TODAY, buy and older used USA one at a pawn shop or off of ebay.
I just want to note that hex shank drills are a great when you have a keyless chuck, you won't have to worry about how tight yuove got it not that you can get them very tight anyways.
Always lookin' to learn

Offline highland512

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Re: Speaking as a mentor: what I would recommend to young folks starting out
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2018, 07:43:09 AM »
Tekton is stepping up their game. I bout a set of the USA made screw drivers for use around the house and I love them. Great feel in my hand and they dont seem to be stripping screws.

I also saw on channel 3 they have just introduced a new angle wrench design, USA made in Mi. Looks like instead of drop forging the are cutting the blanks out on a cnc plasma table then doing the finish work with cnc machine. I am very interested in this as they are selling a set (3/8-1) for $140 and USA made!! With those prices we might just have a craftsman replacement for Joe homeowner who supports the USA economy. I asked the Tekton rep on the site about future plans, he hinted that more wrench designs would be coming stateside!

https://www.tekton.com/wrenches/open-end-wrenches