Author Topic: Reloading  (Read 6863 times)

Offline highland512

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Reloading
« on: March 24, 2020, 02:58:01 PM »
I have been kicking around the idea of getting into reloading for to many years now. This last ammo run has me thinking about it again. Main question, is it worth it? I would be looking into loading .38/.357, 9mm, .223/5.56, and maybe 30-30. Looks like a big investment but Im sure could payoff over the course of 30 years of shooting.

Offline DeadNutz

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2020, 06:00:51 PM »
I have thought about reloading but have never pulled the trigger so to speak. When I was a kid I used to help a neighbor reload the old paper shot shells but never any other ammo. I know it makes sense to do if shooting plenty of ammo though.
I hear some people complaining that these runs on ammo makes it tough to find primers so that is something to stock up on. There are some people who do fine reloading and some who should never do it. The son of a friend bragged about how he has the best reloading gear you can buy. Too bad the gear didn't come with a bag of brains and skills to use it. He called me up one day and asked if he could come over so I could look at his guns he was having a problem with. He pulls out his .45 XD and hands it to me and the magazine is blown half way out of the grip. I had to put the mag in the vise and pull hard to get the damn expanded mag out. A case that he reloaded had split when he fired and it was a good thing he had good glasses on as his face was peppered and bled in places. I handed the gun back and told him to take it to a gunsmith to check before he fired it again. Then he asked me to look at the .308 AR he had built and said that the round wouldn't chamber. I asked him if he any misfires with ammo he loaded and he said a couple had. Sure enough there was a bullet stuck in the barrel and he was lucky the following round didn't chamber due to the bullet in the way. I told him he was lucky to be alive and he just gave me a blank look. He asked me to go shooting with him and I replied not in a million years.

I'm sure you will do fine as I know you have brains. :great:

Offline slip knot

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2020, 07:06:15 PM »
I started reloading when the Feds made waterfowl steel shot only. The $$$ steel was very prohibitive. got into loading for the .44mag because of the $$$. everything else I could buy cheaper than I could reload. I quit the ducks and sold the 44. :03: eventually got rid of the reloading equipment. 20 yrs go by and now we have runs on ammo and I shoot some.
 I got a young guy at work interested in shooting and now hes gotten into reloading. He's bought a press and I've hooked him up with 5.56 and .38 die sets. I've priced out the .38 and have 1000 JHP at $130 and another $50-60in powder and primers. Its a bit cheaper than buying new but I'm not doing the labor end of it. If it was me running that press I would be buying bulk from online between the runs.

Online goodfellow

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2020, 07:23:02 PM »
Right now with prices skyrocketing it makes sense to reload, BUT only if you already have the equipment, bullets, primers, cartridge components, and powders to do it. Brass, powder, primers and projectiles are now also in short supply and getting more expensive each day. Industry needs to catch up, and it will take at least a year for them to fill the pipelines to the extent that they were filled just one month ago.

I do expect that ammunition in general will get more expensive, even when the shelves are replenished, because raw material prices have gone up in price. The days of $0.17 .223 Rem. and $0.12 9mm are over for the time being. That said, with the dollar's value increasing rapidly at this time, we may be able to get cheap imported ammo in the near future; which may make it again economically prohibitive to reload.

Just as an aside. The Obama era EPA shut down the last lead smelters and most of the lead recycling centers in the US. Guess where most of the new and recycled lead for ammo now comes from -- China.

Offline slip knot

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2020, 07:29:04 PM »
I was digging around the barn looking for some of my old reloading stuff and found several chunks of ballast off the old stock car. probably 50lbs of wheel weight lead. may have to find me an old lead wadcutter mold. >:D

Offline muddy

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2020, 09:10:08 PM »
One of my fondest memories is reloading with my father

Sent from the twisted mind of the Mudman


Offline highland512

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2020, 09:37:57 PM »
One of my fondest memories is reloading with my father

Sent from the twisted mind of the Mudman
That’s another thing I was thinking about. Good father son time in the basement during the nasty winter months.

I kick myself for not buying all the reloading equipment I have passed over at auctions, yard sales, and pawn shops. I shoot a lot of eastern block made steel case ammo but I have been smart enough to keep all my brass through the years. This is not a investment I’m looking to make now. I’m thinking 5 year plan as I still think the election will be trumps favor after all this is in the rear view.

Offline gtermini

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2020, 11:17:00 AM »
Handloanding is an addiction for me. I feel like I'm buying guns just to have new ones to work loads for. I'm not benchrest level yet, but it's a constant hunt for new bullets/powder/loads that shoot tiny groups. I have a good pirvate place to go have range day almost weekly with a couple friends and we basically just shoot ladder tests and 5-shot groups for hours. Then spend all week running presses loading back up.

I will never recover the equipment costs in ammo savings. EVER. I see handloading as a hobby in itself, so I don't expect it to justify financially. It's easy to get into loading equipment many thousand$, but it is nice to be able to load precision rifle ammo at 50 cpr vs $3 factory.

I'd say start with the RCBS Rockchucker kit. They usually run a rebate in the fall. Then start figuring out what else you want.

Honorable mention equipment:
Stainless pin wet tumbling setup
Frankford Arsenal Trim/Prep center
Stand alone priming tool
Dedicated decapping press
Turret press to have multiple cal left set up
Various powder throwing options/RCBS CHargemaster/LnL auto thrower/etc
Annealer




















Offline highland512

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2020, 11:33:16 AM »
Explain whats going on in these pictures. I have only ever been involved in trap shell reloading.
There seems to be a very large jump between "hey im going to reload a couple hundred .223 and 9mm every year from fun with friends" and "I am cranking out 1k-3k rounds or laser precision rounds".  What does the cost look like for avg sporting load .223, 9mm, and .38?

Offline gtermini

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2020, 12:10:32 PM »
The RC kit is on the order of $250-300. I has everything minus a hand trickler ($25) to load ammo in small (50-100 rnd) batches. OR doesn't have sales tax, so my prices will be 7% or whatever lower.

Typical cost during non-hoarder times: (cpr = cents per round)

223
"once fired" brass - 6 cpr
55gr FMJ bullets - 6 to 10 cpr when bough by 1k
25gr H335 powder - 9cpr @ $25/lb
cci 450 primer - 3cpr
Total 24-28cpr

It's very close to buying factory ammo. The 2nd and 3rd load on brass bring the price down. Plus you'll start finding deals on powder and get the cost down to 18-20cpr. The advantage is tuning a load to exactly what you gun likes and being immune to shortages provided you've bought ahead some.

9mm is close 16cpr. Almost not worth loading except for the same reasons listed above.

I'll come back and talk about the pics after lunch.

Online goodfellow

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2020, 12:34:19 PM »
Very nice setup gtermini. Very organized and well advanced of most reloading stations that I've seen.

Offline gtermini

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2020, 01:14:13 PM »
Very nice setup gtermini. Very organized and well advanced of most reloading stations that I've seen.

I wish it was 1/10th as organized as the pics make it look. It's a mess usually.  ::)

As for the pics,

1st is a "rock tumbler" I built to tumble brass. It uses various barrels I bought off ebay. Stainless pin tumbling is the best way to clean, bar none. You put the brass in with 5lbs of pins in a barrel full of soapy water and let it run for 45 min. Brass comes out brilliant bright inside and out. You can tumble with traditional walnut or corncob media in the barrel as well. It takes less time than a vibe tumbler. Usually 2-4 hrs.

My general order of ops is deprime - wet tumble - dry - lube/size - trim to length - dry tumble to clean lube off - chamfer/deburr mouths = ready to load

2nd pic is a couple old Herters turret presses I got and modified from 6 to 12 holes per top plate. The riser stands are homemade as well. I like turret presses for bullet seater dies because I can leave a bunch set up for different bullets and calibers. Then it's just index to the one I want and load away without having to spend 5 mins getting overall length adjusted. They are less rigid than single stage, so I don't typically size on them.

3rd pic is an RCBS autoprime tool. It self feeds loaded strips of primers. I've gone through a lot of different priming tools, and personally like this one the best. Anything beats priming on the press, although a few guys still do it. The rcbs hand tool works well, but hurts your hand after 100 rnds and is a paint to change calibers on. The 30 cal ammo can is screwed to the bench and there are several lids with different presses that interchange at that station on the bench. Spent primers fall in the can when it's set up with a lee press to deprime.

4th pic is a Ponsness-Warren Metallic II turret press. It is designed for straight walled pistol, but works well for loading 223. I feed it primed brass, throw powder from with a Hornady case-actuated linkage on the RCBS thrower. When the case comes up it drops powder. Next station is a bullet seater, then finally a Lee factory crimp die. The case never leaves the shellholder during the process. Consistency in movement is key to throwing consistent powder charge weights. It will typically hold within 0.1gr with ball powder.

5th pic an ultrasonic cleaner I use to clean small lots of brass.

6th is the Frankford Arsenal platinum prep center. It's about $150, but well worth it. The power trimmer index off the shoulder and trims plus/minus .002 very well. It is a real saver vs doing it by hand. Mine has all upgraded rcbs carbide cutters that cut much faster and cleaner. It also has a station to uniform primer pockets besides chamfer/deburr.

7th pic is a Harrell's Precision Culver powder thrower. It is the Cadillac of throwers and works much better for rod extruded shape powder vs the rcbs ones. Very spendy though and definitely not first round reloading equipment.

8th is a "World's Cheapest Trimmer" ($20) mounted on a spare motor I had. Trims 223 plus/minus .005 very quickly.

9th is the press that started it all. 1969 RCBS JR2 single stage. It's still my primary single stage press for everything 30-06 and smaller. I like that the handle stroke is shorter than a rockchucker because there's less leverage. The riser is homemade, but similar to a InlineFab. I use a homemade case ejector similar to Inline's as well. It really smooths the process out to not have to touch the case as it comes out of the press. Reloading is all about rhythm and consistency, so I'm always trying to smooth the process out. I still haven't gotten a progressive press, but see one in the near future.

Offline john k

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2020, 10:03:50 PM »
One heckuva setup.  Like that washer, sure beats cleaning media from casings.  Was going to mention i reload my .30 with a little Lee setup, but.


Offline gtermini

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2020, 10:14:46 PM »
Here's my Lee baby press in action. It's a dedicated decapping setup. With a homemade case kicker, it's pretty easy to blow through a couple hundred cases. I wouldn't want to use it for sizing, but some people do.

I'm a bonehead and had the phone the wrong way...

Online goodfellow

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2020, 10:21:58 AM »
Since I don't reload, I'm just wondering if (as is the case with popular factory ammo) there is also a shortage of primers, projectiles, brass, and powder?

I had to run to Walmart yesterday for some yard items, and all the 22LR was depleted. Looks like we have another run on that caliber as well. Only thing left on the shelf was hunting rifle ammo -- with the exception of .308 Win and 30-06 Spfld. Those two rifle cartridges were totally gone. Shot shells were also depleted. Amazingly, air rifle pellets were also in short supply. Something which has never happened around here. 

Offline gtermini

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2020, 12:40:40 PM »
Since I don't reload, I'm just wondering if (as is the case with popular factory ammo) there is also a shortage of primers, projectiles, brass, and powder?

Yes, They're pillaged out both in store and online.

Offline slip knot

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2020, 12:46:27 PM »
I ordered some .38 JHP on the 18th and they just shipped Friday. The website even updates where they are in the order shipping. kinda funny its taking two days to complete the orders from one day.

Online goodfellow

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2020, 12:50:57 PM »
I ordered some .38 JHP on the 18th and they just shipped Friday. The website even updates where they are in the order shipping. kinda funny its taking two days to complete the orders from one day.

Sure is crazy. I saw that SGAmmo (a great family owned company BTW) wasn't even taking orders right now because they were so overwhelmed with meeting orders that were placed in the last 10 days. That has to be some kind of a record - to be so overwhelmed with business that you simply have to stop servicing new customers -- WOW!!!

Offline GreyOwl

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Re: Reloading
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2020, 11:49:24 PM »
The RC kit is on the order of $250-300. I has everything minus a hand trickler ($25) to load ammo in small (50-100 rnd) batches. OR doesn't have sales tax, so my prices will be 7% or whatever lower.


I'll come back and talk about the pics after lunch.

Wow, I thought I was looking at my bookshelf with the titles you have there. I think I have 3/4 of the same books on my shelf!
GreyOwl