Author Topic: My memories of the A-10 Warthog  (Read 7086 times)

Offline bonneyman

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2021, 10:05:22 PM »
Thanks for posting that great stuff George and keep it coming as you think of it.

Now that you mention it, I haven't talked about the cockpit protection. The A-10 has a titanium "tub" that the cockpit sits in. Virtually indestructible, it can take a 30mm anti-aircraft round hit and not show a dent on the inside. The pilot and all the sensitive controls are located inside this 'tub".
I recall there was an A-10 crash in Myrtle Beach, can't remember the year. Plane went down in a heavily wooded area. Investigators found the impact point and alot of wreckage, but no pilot. Then they noticed a square shaped "tunnel" through the trees. They followed that tunnel hole and found the cockpit inside the titanium tub some distance away. Thing made a perfect square hole thru the trees!
And inside was the pilots body. He was decapitated, as his head (obviously) had to be above the tub to see outside. But his entire body was intact!

After reading about this incident I remember wondering why there wasn't more of these kinds of crashes. I've seen strike films where the A-10 pilot was flying so low he had to roll 90 degrees to fly between two tall pine trees! they had to train and fight at very low altitudes, as they weren't fast enough to outrun other fighters. (Max speed clean in level flight at the perfect altitude was 500 MPH). So they had to fly low and as fast as they dared. Plus they were vulnerable to ground fire being so low, so flying at treetop level was a way of sneaking up on a target, popping up at the last instant, and pummeling it before they could react. Such flying should have produced more forest crashes, but I didn't hear of any.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2021, 10:29:58 PM by bonneyman »

Offline goodfellow

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2021, 07:28:19 AM »
Good stuff George. IIRC the self sealing fuel tank technology was pretty advanced for the day (mid-1970s) and it was able to stop leaks even when the tank was riddled like swiss cheese. Saw a documentary on that once, and it was impressive. Fairchild-Republic was way ahead of the curve when they put the A-10 design on paper.
Problem is the the Air Force has been trying to kill the A=10 program for years. The big Aerospace conglomerates have been lobbying (aka -- bribing and wining/dining) Air Force brass to call it quits on the A-10 and come up with a new (more EXPENSIVE) design. Some even want to produce an F-35 variant to take over close ground support. A ridiculous notion at best, and extremely dangerous at worst to have the F-35 assume that role.

I'm glad that there is a huge lobby in congress that keeps funding this airframe into the future. Nothing can replace the A-10 and that big a$$ gun it carries.

Offline DeadNutz

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2021, 08:55:23 AM »
I'm a firm believer that after the Russians saw how well the Warthog decimated the Iraqi armor in Kuwait and Iraq that they re-thought their grand plan of storming armor through Europe. The pictures of the highway of death told the story of how effective the A-10's are. The thing that cracked me up though was the military telling the press and others to stay away from the carnage due to radioactivity from the 30mm depleted uranium rounds. If they were so radioactive hot how the heck were they manufactured and loaded into guns by soldiers like George?

The facts of course are that the convoy on the highway to Baghdad was transporting all the radioactive material looted from Kuwait which is the reason Saddam invaded in the first place.

Offline ron350

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2021, 09:16:43 AM »
 Yes a great airplane.

Offline bonneyman

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2021, 09:59:26 AM »
Yes, Roy, Fairchild did seem to be on top of things when they designed it.

I read a report that stated an A-10 could lose one half of the tail, the outer one third of a wing, one engine, all hydraulic power, all fuel tanks punctured, and everything forward of the cockpit - and still fly! So your statement corroborates that statement.

And for those who say the gun firing 4200 rounds per minute costs alot of money: the high explosive rounds then cost $40 a pop. A 3 second rip of the gun fires 210 rounds, so, that costs $8400. Not cheap. But alot cheaper than an AGM-65, which then costed $1 million.

Offline bonneyman

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2021, 10:07:31 AM »
I'm a firm believer that after the Russians saw how well the Warthog decimated the Iraqi armor in Kuwait and Iraq that they re-thought their grand plan of storming armor through Europe. The pictures of the highway of death told the story of how effective the A-10's are. The thing that cracked me up though was the military telling the press and others to stay away from the carnage due to radioactivity from the 30mm depleted uranium rounds. If they were so radioactive hot how the heck were they manufactured and loaded into guns by soldiers like George?

The facts of course are that the convoy on the highway to Baghdad was transporting all the radioactive material looted from Kuwait which is the reason Saddam invaded in the first place.

That is a great point! I think I have to thank the grace of God on that one. I knew the rounds used depleted uranium, but didn't take the next step and think when I'm handling them I'm REALLY close to radioactive material. Maybe I thought "depleted" meant "non-toxic". I know now that's stupid but didn't realize it at the time.
My time close to those shells over 4 years was quite small - I think the bomb storage yard personnel had ALOT more worries than I did. They were around that stuff all day, every day. Sheesh!

I also did a temporary assignment at George AFB outside Victorville, California. And most people know it's now closed due to widespread toxic contamination, including thwe water supply. People who served there long term have come down with all sorts of horrible cancers and such, and it's been traceable to exposure to chems at that base. Again, I drank the same water those people did - the grace of God kept me from getting sick.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2021, 10:33:11 AM by bonneyman »

Offline bonneyman

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2021, 10:19:36 AM »
Great picture, Ron.

One of the main design points that won the flyoff competition for the A-10 was it's engine placement. Way back, high, and separated from the fuselage by a significant distance. A turbine failure or engine fire would have a lower chance of transferring it to the main body.
Also notice the placement of the tail structures. To help reduce chances of a heat seeking missile taking out an engine, parts were placed to cover the exhaust cone. From the side, above, and below, they're fairly obscured. Only from directly behind can you get a heat signal from the engine cone itself. But even then, the jet exhaust heat is "diluted".
You see, the engines on the A-10 are actually quite small in size. They drove a huge fan at the front of the engine, and most of that ingested air was forcefully expelled for a significant percentage of the engine thrust. (It's what gives the A-10 the distinctive engine whine it has). The small jet does produce some direct thrust, but that hot gas is "diluted" by the expelled fan air. Also consider there is no afterburner on the A-10. So, if you add up all these factors, there's very little of a heat signature even directly behind the aircraft.
This is what gives the A-10 it's weird rear end, and it must have been quite an engineering challenge to mount the engines so high and wide and off center. A whole lot of effort went into designing and building it that way which probably added to the cost but in the end 40 years later I'd say it paid off.
Compare it to the layout of the Northrup A-9, which had the engines tucked into the wing roots in the fuselage. Easier and cheaper to make - but as we've seen not as good. It's notable that the Russian's version of the CAS plane (the "Frogfoot") was a copy of the A-9 design.

Here's some info on the the A-9 prototype.
https://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4446
https://www.avgeekery.com/watch-the-battle-between-the-ya-9-and-the-ya-10/
« Last Edit: July 02, 2021, 01:46:33 PM by bonneyman »

Offline bonneyman

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2021, 02:23:26 PM »
My time working on the A-10 was not all roses, however.
There are now sheet metal canopies over the parked planes, but when I worked on them we were out in the full sunlight. Summer afternoons in Tucson on a concrete flightline could get extremely hot. I don't recall too much trouble as a young lad, but we were permitted to take our heavy canvas fatigue shirts off and work in white T-shirts. Most of my time was spent on mid shift (night time), so, heat wasn't too big of an issue.
We had 3 shifts: days(8AM to 4PM), swings (4PM to 12PM) and mids (12PM to 8AM). I worked all 3, swings was the worst. Days was the coveted shift, but then you had all the high up NCO's and officers walking around looking for ways to bust you and advance themselves. Very rarely did we do night flying, so, officers during mid shift were rare. So I gravitated to mid shift. We got a new hotshot master seargent on swing shift my last year and a half there, and he worked them to the bone. He wouldn't let people go if we had a maintenance problem, keeping them after midnight just to make himself look good. Mids is when we did the plane loading, so having the entire swing shift crews there made it tough to get our job done. And if we didn't get all the right planes properly loaded on time, we hung for it - the excuse of having the other guys in the way didn't fly.

There was one of the 3 squadrons who just seemed to always be having problems (not mine). One time they were loading the gun, and had to have full electric power and hydraulic pressure to do that. The guy in the cockpit was playing "Star Wars" while he was bored, and pulled the trigger. The gun operated as advertised, shooting off 4 or 5 rounds. Almost put the plane on it's rear end! Luckily it was on the front row, so the rounds went harmlessly into the desert. Had it been in the 2nd or 3rd rows the whole dang flightline could have gone up like domino's
Another time they were doing a check on the gun, again all power applied. The gun has a safety feature in that - once you're done firing - the gun automatically backed up so the it is never loaded until you're actually firing it. (So there's actually a time lag when you pull the trigger, but as I've said before the thing spins so fast it's not noticeable). Well, as part of the maintenance checks, one of the guys underneath has to insert a test plug into the sensor to simulate to the computer that the gun has backed up and is empty. And to do that he has to jam his hand in behind the gear to click it in. Unbeknowst to him, they were out of sequence, so, once he popped in the plug the gun rotated - and took 4 of his fingers off! They put them on ice and rushed him to the hospital, and they sewed them back on. He then served as a loading instructor, the nicest guy, never said anything bad about the other guys who screwed up. After that incident they came up with a remote plug on the end of an aluminum rod so a guy didn't have to stick his hand in there.

We also had the unenviable task of washing the plane. After so many flight hours a plane was hauled over to the "wash rack" and every body took turns doing it. Picture a huge uncovered car wash - with no pressure washer! Usually there were solitary guys available to go over there. They were short a man on their crew, someone was away on vacation, certifications were expired, etc, so those poor guys had the cleaning duty. But the higher up used the wash rack as discipline. If they didn't like you, you'd get sent over there alot. In a way it wasn't too bad - if you worked fast and got the thing clean and it passed inspection you could go home early. (Although if they were behind and you got done soon enough they brought a second plane in. Dang!) Crew chiefs cleaned all the top of the airplane (they didn't want us grunts stepping on the wrong panel), so the underside was our task. Usually two guys split the duty, though occasionally only one of us was there, and the crew chief would try and help you out but he kinda had his hands full.
The 3 wheel wells were especially sick. Those areas were virtually impervious to the weak soap they made us use, and we had to clean all around the electrical connectors and hydraulic lines with various brushes and rags. It had to be spotless. Try as you might you'd get filthy, and more than once while rinsing the internals with a fire house type of rig it'd come straight back at you and you'd get a face full. I don't know what was in the soap but it tasted bad! Probably some carcinogen. At least with the A-10 it was high enough off the ground where you could almost stand up under it to clean. Fighters like the F-4 I heard were absolutely a horror to clean, as you'd be crawling or laying under it. :(
« Last Edit: July 02, 2021, 03:15:23 PM by bonneyman »

Offline skfarmer

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2021, 05:13:06 PM »
These stories are fascinating.

 I have mentioned before  I was friends with a guy buy the name of Jerry Beck. He was a name in the P-51 world. Died ina plane crash in osh Josh about 10 years ago now. Anywho. They had an airshow at he local airport  where his shop was.

Anywho.......somehow or another they got a warthog in for the show and got to see it do it's stuff up close. An amazing piece of machinery
from the ashes shall rise a phoenix

i was here when the hangout turned into mexican food site!

Offline bonneyman

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2021, 05:32:39 PM »
I didn't get too many photos during my tenure in the Air Force, as the plane was still quite new and they weren't too keen on us guys taking closeups! Besides all the photos I do have are Polaroid One Step (my camera at the time) so they aren't uploadable here. I do have some later shots when I saw the A-10 at airshows. Perhaps I can try and dig out the photo albums and get some scanned so you guys can see them.

I know I've got some pics of the "Show Queen" display aircraft. You know, the one they spiff up and chrome parts and make it look like a jaguar for display to the public? The 7 barrel gun turrent on the front is chromed on that one. Totally ridiculous but it's cool to see your reflection in it!  :
« Last Edit: July 02, 2021, 05:36:03 PM by bonneyman »

Offline bonneyman

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2021, 09:47:30 AM »
I just saw a video of an F-22 engine being static tested, and it was said the engine costs 12 million dollars. Kinda crazy, as I recall the A-10's delivery cost was 11 million dollars - for the whole plane!   :-\

« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 03:48:42 PM by bonneyman »

Offline Rusty

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2021, 02:16:43 PM »
F 35 $36000 per hour of operation. Could have bought 3 A10s for the price of one flight hour.


https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/air-force-admits-f-35-fighter-jet-costs-too-much-ncna1259781 kind of interesting NBC article.
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Offline DeadNutz

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2021, 03:16:24 PM »
The numbers might be off a little Rusty. The facts are that I doubt if they could design and build an upgraded A-10 aircraft in a reasonable amount of time for less than $40 million dollars a copy. The procurement system is so messed up and dollars are flushed or just going in peoples pockets for no value.

Offline bonneyman

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2021, 03:54:15 PM »
The numbers might be off a little Rusty. The facts are that I doubt if they could design and build an upgraded A-10 aircraft in a reasonable amount of time for less than $40 million dollars a copy. The procurement system is so messed up and dollars are flushed or just going in peoples pockets for no value.

Yep, the military industrial complex doesn't even try to hide their incompetence anymore.
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Offline Rusty

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Re: My memories of the A-10 Warthog
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2021, 05:29:22 PM »
The numbers are way off. I just wonder what would happen if someone like Musk was to decide to create defense aircraft.
"Those wars are unjust which are undertaken without provocation.
 For only a war waged for revenge or defense can be just"

Marcus Tullius Cicero