Garage Gazette
General Category => PHOTOS OF GENERAL INTEREST (NOT TOOLS OR SHOP RELATED) => Topic started by: goodfellow on August 30, 2018, 03:22:58 PM
-
GM finally gave its Cadillac division permission to engineer a new engine. I love the Northstar, but after it went away in 2011/2012 the company had to rely mostly on the GM 3.6L V6 and the SBC V8 --= not exactly technological innovation for GM's premier luxury brand.
This looks like a game changer. I'm a firm believer that they should have stuck with the Northstar 4.6L DOHC motor because for all its early faults with oil leaks and head gasket problems, by 2010 they had pretty much solved all those problems.
Nice to see Caddy get a high tech engine to compete against the Euros and Asians -- In many ways it is much like the Northstar --
https://media.cadillac.com/media/us/en/cadillac/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2018/mar/0321-twin-turbo-v8.html
-
Man, I'm glad I don't have to work on one. look at all the crap on top of the motor.
-
Man, I'm glad I don't have to work on one. look at all the crap on top of the motor.
That's a fact. Look at where the AC compressor is buried.
-
Man, I'm glad I don't have to work on one. look at all the crap on top of the motor.
^^^^X3.
-
I'll bet that thing cranks but you can have it. I'll take a 5.7 liter from 97 :))
-
It would be wonderful as long as you didn't have to work on it!
-
I foresee many problems. Mainly from techs making bloopers trying to get to components. Looks like a lot of potential for heat related failures.
-
I foresee many problems. Mainly from techs making bloopers trying to get to components. Looks like a lot of potential for heat related failures.
Interesting post Rusty!!! -- I thought the same thing when I saw the configuration and the write-up of the technology --
Quote from the Cadillac write-up:
".....At the center of the 4.2L Twin Turbo V-8 is a “hot V” configuration that transposes the conventional layout of the cylinder heads’ intake and exhaust systems to mount the turbochargers at the top of the engine — in the valley between the heads — to virtually eliminate turbo lag and reduce the engine’s overall packaging size."
-
That would make the old Miata fly!
-
It would be wonderful as long as you didn't have to work on it!
That kinda sounds like "I love nuclear energy so long as the power plant isn't in my neighborhood"! ;)
-
That kinda sounds like "I love nuclear energy so long as the power plant isn't in my neighborhood"! ;)
In the case of the residents of San Clemente, California (where the San Onofre nuclear power plant is located) they may have been right.
-
It would be wonderful as long as you didn't have to work on it!
That kinda sounds like "I love nuclear energy so long as the power plant isn't in my neighborhood"! ;)
I am not anxious to own a car with an engine so technologically advanced I can only open the hood and look down upon an engine I can do nothing to fix or maintain. I would prefer instead any make or model of vehicle I can relate to mechanically; if that comes at the expense of style or gas mileage I totally good with that too.
In the immortal words of Clint Eastwood, "A man has to know his limitations" ;)
-
A lot crammed into a small space, which is usual at this time. Am surprised the AC compressor is belt driven, thought it would be run by electric motor as the PS pump is on a lot of vehicles. Also glad I'll never have to work on one. In a transverse mount for FWD, looks like a nightmare.
-
I am not anxious to own a car with an engine so technologically advanced I can only open the hood and look down upon an engine I can do nothing to fix or maintain. I would prefer instead any make or model of vehicle I can relate to mechanically; if that comes at the expense of style or gas mileage I totally good with that too.
In the immortal words of Clint Eastwood, "A man has to know his limitations" ;)
With you on that I want to get my hands on it and do things for myself. But the sad reality is it's likely a preview of coming attractions. At least for the near future. Stuff in luxury cars usually filters down and with self driving and driver assist it's only going to be packing more in.
I believe all my future cars have already been built.
-
I've already consigned myself to taking the DD in for repairs. The days of me working on them is quickly fading away. I will keep the toys but with the crappy replacement parts we get nowdays it getting harder and harder to keep the toys reliable. and reliability is what I'm after.
-
Man, I'm glad I don't have to work on one. look at all the crap on top of the motor.
+1 on what Slip Knot said. That’s why I drive a Land Cruiser FJ40. It’s as simple to work on as it gets.
-
Man, I'm glad I don't have to work on one. look at all the crap on top of the motor.
^^^^X3.
X4
The Northstar engines have the starter buried under the intake.
Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
-
Man, I'm glad I don't have to work on one. look at all the crap on top of the motor.
^^^^X3.
X4
The Northstar engines have the starter buried under the intake.
Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
True -- it's hard job, but the motor is a great design. At the time it was way ahead of anything else that US manufcaturers had to offer.
-
Man, I'm glad I don't have to work on one. look at all the crap on top of the motor.
^^^^X3.
X4
The Northstar engines have the starter buried under the intake.
Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
True -- it's hard job, but the motor is a great design. At the time it was way ahead of anything else that US manufcaturers had to offer.
Very true
Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
-
I love a Cadillac, great cars, this year my 20th anniversary, the wife got a CTS, she earned it LMAO.
Did you know they are rear wheel drive, the auto trans has a feature that allows the driver to shift it like a manual box.
On the down side it took me over 3 hours to pair the garage door opener to the cabin button. The user manual, how about 500 + pages 250 pages for crap like cell phones and all. :-\
And they run healthy, no side pipes, but it did get a K&N upgrade.
Pep
-
re: starter under the intake manifold - same on a Lexus DOHV V8.
I am so glad I am no longer in the remanufactured engine business.
-
It would be wonderful as long as you didn't have to work on it!
That kinda sounds like "I love nuclear energy so long as the power plant isn't in my neighborhood"! ;)
I am not anxious to own a car with an engine so technologically advanced I can only open the hood and look down upon an engine I can do nothing to fix or maintain. I would prefer instead any make or model of vehicle I can relate to mechanically; if that comes at the expense of style or gas mileage I totally good with that too.
In the immortal words of Clint Eastwood, "A man has to know his limitations" ;)
Agreed!
Mr. Callahan sure knew how to say things! ;D
-
"Mr. Callahan sure knew how to say things! ;D"
How true!
I was thinking of the guys back in my group that have to write the diagnostics for the ECM/TCM on that baby!
Glad it's not me! ;D
-
With you on that I want to get my hands on it and do things for myself. But the sad reality is it's likely a preview of coming attractions. At least for the near future. Stuff in luxury cars usually filters down and with self driving and driver assist it's only going to be packing more in.
I believe all my future cars have already been built.
I love that line.
-
, but it did get a K&N upgrade.
Pep
FYI , the oil on K&N filters can gunk up the mass air flow sensor. Great filter for a carb. After cleaning the entire intake on a used 2003 Yukon I purchased, I would never use one on a newer vehicle. Previous owner had too much oil on the filter, but any oil on the MAF is too much.
-
I'm a retired Cadillac tech.
The NorthStar had many problems it shouldn't have had , not enough testing time?
After you work on many of them , they do get easier , but nearly impossible to beat flat rate times,
especially when you have to wait on parts orders. The starter was an exception , easy to beat FR
It was near impossible to find anyone qualified or willing to work on them.
This new engine may make that more difficult.
Imagine taking your car in for a repair , the tech tears it down , then quits and leaves the pile for someone else
and they can't hire someone else to put it together.
Happened a couple times , 2 months for head gaket repairs.
Nice piece of enginering , but totally unnecessary for a daily driver.
-
I'm a retired Cadillac tech.
The NorthStar had many problems it shouldn't have had , not enough testing time?
After you work on many of them , they do get easier , but nearly impossible to beat flat rate times,
especially when you have to wait on parts orders. The starter was an exception , easy to beat FR
It was near impossible to find anyone qualified or willing to work on them.
This new engine may make that more difficult.
Imagine taking your car in for a repair , the tech tears it down , then quits and leaves the pile for someone else
and they can't hire someone else to put it together.
Happened a couple times , 2 months for head gaket repairs.
Nice piece of enginering , but totally unnecessary for a daily driver.
Thanks for your input lostmind -- it helps a great deal to get info from the source. I also think the Northstar engine was retired way too soon. I love that engine -- All aluminum DOHC using timing chain technology it was meant to give the luxury Euro and Japanese cars a run for their money -- and it did. Aside from the known issues such as the head bolts, the oil sealing problem, and the later water pump design; .. what other major flaws were there from your perspective?
I'm of the impression that by the time GM retired the engine in 2011, all the big issues had mostly been addressed. Given another year or two and that engine would have been bullet proof.
-
Biggest other problem was carbon deposits on pistons , caused by bad rings. They came out with chemicals to dissolve the carbon.
Removal of plugs was needed , add measured amounts to cylinders and soak. reinstall plugs and run engine feeding more chemicals through intake. GM supplied the tools needed, mostly just a small tank with controlled flow..
They then came out with bulletin recommending new rings. I did several engines needing rings.
Hard to beat the 22 hours they gave and do it right. This was on the earlier engines.
Most of the head gasket problems ended up with new engines. They had thread inserts for stripped threads
that occurred from tightening to new specs. If more then two were close to each other, they gave short block.
I think by 2011 all these problems were eliminated. But it was a costly engine to make.
The smaller CTS was outselling the bigger cars , I think that's why they stopped building it.
I was gone from the dealer by then.
Water pumps were the only other failures I recall .
We sold Buicks also , 3.8 V6 was by far the most trouble free engine. Plastic intakes were the headache , but good money makers.
-
Thank you lostmind -- I never did understand the water pump issues. Originally they were relatively easy to service in place using the special tool to remove it from the water pump manifold housing. Later engines on 2006 and up vehicles did away with that design and required the entire water pump manifold to be removed to change the pump. I never understood why the they went from a workable early design to a nightmare scenario on later engines. I'm sure not even the technicians appreciated that change -- even if it did offer more book time.
-
I'm a retired Cadillac tech.
The NorthStar had many problems it shouldn't have had , not enough testing time?
After you work on many of them , they do get easier , but nearly impossible to beat flat rate times,
especially when you have to wait on parts orders. The starter was an exception , easy to beat FR
It was near impossible to find anyone qualified or willing to work on them.
This new engine may make that more difficult.
Imagine taking your car in for a repair , the tech tears it down , then quits and leaves the pile for someone else
and they can't hire someone else to put it together.
Happened a couple times , 2 months for head gaket repairs.
A couple friends of mine were GM mechanics. Both refused to touch Cadillacs after loosing money on jobs. No surprise the dealerships can't get anyone to work on them if even the full time Cadillac techs can't beat book. I hope your hourly rate was high enough to make up for the unrealistic repair times.
-
What's the hourly rate for a Caddy tech? I'd assume they make higher rates than Chevy or GMC techs?
I think with the Northstar cars, as with many higher end engine Euro cars, it was not very easy to beat engine repair book times -- which made them often unpopular.
-
I don't know about other places , but I got paid the same for Cadillac , Buick and Pontiac.
I've been retired 9 years , so I'm out of touch now.
I see ads for $31 an hour in northeast Ohio area.
-
I don't know what the hell Cadillac is thinking. There is definitely a huge management problem at the GM senior levels. This new Twin Turbo 4.2L V8 engine is only two years old and it will apparently die with the end of the CT6 production at the GM Hamtramck facility. How can a two year old engine design be cast aside so quickly? Most the of the new sedan options in the CT4 and CT5 line are powered by an anemic 4cyl turbo power plant. Only the CT5-V model will get a Twin Turbo V6.
Cadillac (and GM) have definitely lost their way. While the Germans, Japanese, and Koreans are bringing standard 6 and eight cylinder options into their luxury lineups, GM is regressing to third class economy car status -- remember the Catera? You'd think they learned a lesson from those terrible days. SUVs and crossovers are not base Cadillac customer products, but the bean counters at GM are betting the entire company on that stupid premise.
-
Most everyone I know running a Caddy are in the SUV type rides. Either the middy crossover or the bigger suburban chassis Caddy.
-
Most everyone I know running a Caddy are in the SUV type rides. Either the middy crossover or the bigger suburban chassis Caddy.
True enough, but over the last decade Caddy has lost it's primary sedan customers to other brands because the offerings have been so sparse outside of the SUV and Crossover lineup. GM, like Ford, is betting on Trucks, SUVs and crossovers -- that will come back to bite them in the rear end. The winner in all this is the lowly Chrysler 300 platform which still offers a large luxury sedan - (and maybe the Lincoln lineup) even though the 300 sedan design is going on 15 years now. If FCA is smart, they will do a redesign of the 300 in 2021 and dominate the large luxury American sedan market for the next decade.
-
This 4.2L caught my attention. Not that I can remotely afford one. Id want to drive it , not live in it. They aren't going to sell many if they don't have them on the lot. There was one, 1439 mile from me. And it lists for around $98k. Cool car, way over the common man budget. Just like a $50k Chevy SS. If a guy can afford one even if it is a little over the standard one, a guy might try to talk the wife into it. But at twice or more, they just aren't going to sell many.
(https://cgi.cadillac.com/mmgprod-us/dynres/prove/image.gen?i=2020/6KM69/6KM69__1SP/G1W_1SP_1SZ_4FR_6JC_7JC_8HR_9HR_AL0_AQ9_AX7_AXJ_AYX_B8V_BTV_C24_C3U_CAP_CWA_DEH_DNP_DRZ_E2C_EF7_F46_F55_FE2_FE9_FHO_FLT_HD7_HK1_HS1_I20_IOT_J6H_JBP_K4C_KA1_KA6_KEM_KL9_KRV_KSG_KU9_LTA_MAH_MHW_N30_NTB_NYS_PZ1_QP1_R6F_R7E_R9N_RQ9_TC2_TDM_TQ5_TSQ_U2M_UDV_UE1_UE4_UEU_UFG_UG1_UGN_UKC_UKJ_UKK_UKL_UQH_UTR_UTT_UTU_UTV_UV2_UV3_UV6_UVZ_UWG_V03_V3L_V8D_VHM_VK3_VQ2_VRG_VRH_VRK_VRL_VRM_VRN_VRR_VV4_W0A_WML_WQB_XVR_Y40_Y41_Y42_Y4Z_Y61_Y65_Y66_YM8_ZCHgmds1.jpg&v=deg02&std=true&country=US)