Author Topic: 11-996 what am i indexing ratchet theory?  (Read 224 times)

Offline Matt_T

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Re: 11-996 what am i indexing ratchet theory?
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2020, 11:25:05 AM »
so here is my conspiracy theory. armstrong as well as other brands offered this ratchet. mac, matco and snap-on i believe. all pretty much the same except for the the handle shape. not a big stretch for gearwrench to steal the armstrong handle shape.

Snap-on also offered their tri wing round head mechanism in other ratchet styles. And their 1/4" drive version was 60T not 72T. Also their indexing mechanism uses a spline rather than pins.

I can't recall MAC/Proto offering an indexing round head. They did have MAC, also branded Proto, pear head indexing rats at around the same time Snap-on and Danaher were selling the round heads.

Armstrong, Matco and Gearwrench were all part of Danaher, so no surprise they're all the same aside from the handles. Does that GW version have C.O.O. marked on it anywhere?

Offline skfarmer

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Re: 11-996 what am i indexing ratchet theory?
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2020, 11:45:35 AM »
the gearwrench website claims made in usa, but there is no markings on it.

ray, i don't have much doubt that it is us made. pretty sure they "were" made here and i know of nothing like it coming out of asia. when you look at the gearwrench website, there are not that many us made items so when they are marked usa one could assume they are.
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Offline Matt_T

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Re: 11-996 what am i indexing ratchet theory?
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2020, 12:13:31 PM »
the gearwrench website claims made in usa, but there is no markings on it.

ray, i don't have much doubt that it is us made. pretty sure they "were" made here and i know of nothing like it coming out of asia. when you look at the gearwrench website, there are not that many us made items so when they are marked usa one could assume they are.

The where they were made is almost certainly Armstrong. But since they appear to be current GW, and Matco, products that raises the question of where they're currently made? Maybe AJ Manufacturing??

Offline Matt_T

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Re: 11-996 what am i indexing ratchet theory?
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2020, 01:24:47 PM »
   So , how useful is this ratchet ? I have a 1/4" drive indexing ratchet , but have never had a place to use it ?

Indexing rats aren't something you'll use a lot but when you do use them they'll save a lot of time and hassle. They can get you on fasteners that'd otherwise require something like an S or half moon wrench.

Another thing on the MACs is once the fastener is busted loose you can unlock them and use a push pull action which is much faster in places you can't get much handle swing. I think the Snap-ons can also be used unlocked but not sure about the Danahers.

The MACs can also be 360* cranked, which might also be possible with the Snap-ons. The Danahers obviously don't have that capability.

Offline muddy

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Re: 11-996 what am i indexing ratchet theory?
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2020, 02:15:09 PM »
Not sure why I guessed williams. I have see snappy version of this ratchet. Seems like it would come in handy but yet you hardly ever see them in guys toolboxes.

I still use a tuff1 1/2 at work.

Sent from the twisted mind of the Mudman


Online J.A.F.E.

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Re: 11-996 what am i indexing ratchet theory?
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2020, 03:51:58 PM »
Here is a Blue Point and Snap-on. They seem to use the same indexing post but most of the rest seems different. I don't recall the details but Snap-on bought them from a third party (I believe the Blue Point branded ones) but at some point started making them themselves in violation of the patent - US 5419221 which was issued to James E. Cole who seems to be a fairly prolific inventor. The patent is for the indexing arrangement https://patents.google.com/patent/US5419221A/en . There is no indication in this return who the original assignee was. But Snap-on basically seems to have rolled over the maker and may have drove them broke in the patent fight. The patent is now expired and anyone is free to make the design.

The three pix here show the ratchets top pic is Blue Point on bottom, Snap-on on top and shows how different the two are from one another. The Blue Point is handy for really confined spaces but I suspect it's fairly delicate. The Snap-on appears to be more robust.

The next pic shows the business end of both the Blue Point on left. The patent number is visible on the Snap-on. The Blue Point has Patented USA on the top side laser etched but no number visible on the ratchet.

The last pic shows the smooth part of the pin the handles are engaged in the splined section of the pin. There is a check ball on the pin that holds the handle in the splined section or the smooth section although in use it is easy to accidentally engage the splined section enough to lock the position. It is possible to use the the ratchet where the head is used in the push pull fashion but as I mentioned if you aren't careful it can partially lock.

People who confuse etymology and entomology bug me in ways I canít put into words.

Online J.A.F.E.

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Re: 11-996 what am i indexing ratchet theory?
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2020, 03:55:04 PM »
The top pic shows a close up of the splined section. Barely visible on the right is the check ball peeking out shyly.

The last pic show a nicely out of focus image of the pin with the check ball visible.

Hope all this long and verbose rambling helps.
People who confuse etymology and entomology bug me in ways I canít put into words.

Offline DeadNutz

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Re: 11-996 what am i indexing ratchet theory?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2020, 04:24:59 PM »
My theory is that since Armstrong was a part of Apex who also owns Gearwrench we will continue to see Armstrong looking stuff because their tooling still exists.

From Wiki:
In 1994, Armstrong was acquired by the Danaher Corporation, where it operated as its industrial hand tools division.

In 2010, Armstrong, as part of Danaher Tool Group, became part of Apex Tool Group, LLC. In 2017, Apex announced that it would layoff 170 workers at its Sumter, South Carolina plant and cease production of the Armstrong and Allen brands by March 31st.

Offline Matt_T

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Re: 11-996 what am i indexing ratchet theory?
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2020, 05:45:26 PM »
Here is a Blue Point and Snap-on. They seem to use the same indexing post but most of the rest seems different. I don't recall the details but Snap-on bought them from a third party (I believe the Blue Point branded ones) but at some point started making them themselves in violation of the patent - US 5419221 which was issued to James E. Cole who seems to be a fairly prolific inventor. The patent is for the indexing arrangement https://patents.google.com/patent/US5419221A/en . There is no indication in this return who the original assignee was. But Snap-on basically seems to have rolled over the maker and may have drove them broke in the patent fight. The patent is now expired and anyone is free to make the design.

Found this. It appears Snap-on did obtain a license to use the patent then got caught up in the middle of a fight between James Cole and another guy.

https://casetext.com/case/gummow-v-splined-tools-corporation

ETA this is how I found the assignee. Hit "Show all events" ;)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 05:58:16 PM by Matt_T »

Online J.A.F.E.

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Re: 11-996 what am i indexing ratchet theory?
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2020, 05:59:39 PM »
Thank you for digging that out. A most interesting story.
People who confuse etymology and entomology bug me in ways I canít put into words.

Offline skfarmer

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Re: 11-996 what am i indexing ratchet theory?
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2020, 06:46:30 PM »
i also have a t860mp like j.a.f.e.

it is the 1/4 drive snap-on indexable ratchet. while it can be rotated in a speed fashion or worked back and forth i have never used it that way. it has way more play in the indexing portion than the gearwrench i have. i think that  is the nature of the design.

way back when i had a mac indexable, it used  that old 30ish tooth head and had a hard handle. sold it or trafed on something that i can't even remember. it never impressed me that much as the old large pearheads with low tooth counts didn't go well with this type of ratchet. it would fit around something  but there still usually  wasn't enough room to make "clicks".
from the ashes shall rise a phoenix

i was here when the hangout turned into mexican food site!