Harbor Freight Off Their Rocker?

[gtermini]

HF seems to be taking the new business model to a insane level in my mind. They seem to want to leave behind the cheap tools and sell almost top shelf priced stuff. I don't know if this will work out for them or not. To me it all looks like quality tool clones at 80% of real prices. If a guy is gonna spend that, why not buy the real deal?

The new roll cab blows me away on the pricing. $7500 for a garbage freight box! Who is going to buy that? You can get into a super clean used EPIQ snappy for that kind of money, and maybe even finance it on the truck if need be. I don't know what wrench turner will be able to afford that without a payment plan. I do't condone borrowing money for a tool box, but it's realistically what a lot of techs do. I could see the set for $2500-3000 with lots of buyers (myself probably included).

They even have a whole new branding
http://www.iconprotools.com/





Am I taking crazy pills, or is HF headed for left field?

Greyson

[john k]

Was in the new Harbor Freight store this afternoon.   Seeing more things with American brands, even if not American made.   Less low end stuff for sure.  Bought a portable car cover with aluminum frame,  with a coupon was priced right. 

[fatfillup]

I think HF moving towards premium tools is pretty risky business model.  It certainly isn't what got them to where they are today.  I am no HF fanboy but was in one the other day and the next day to exchange a defective product.  There was a long line both days at the check out counter.  2 cashiers and 10 customers, they were definitely busy selling their normal fare. 

I guess if they are devoting a little floor space to premium tools, its worth a shot to see if it works but a complete change would be a disaster I would think

[highland512]

@ $2,499 for a roll cab I will hit the internet classified and buy a NICE used SO or Matco................. Sorry HF, your still HF no matter how fancy your market your crap.

[bonneyman]

So.....maybe this is the reason they had that blowout sale a couple of months ago. To clear out space for their "new" higher end stuff.

[goodfellow]

With Sears out of the way as a "brick 'n mortar" walk-in option, it makes perfect sense that HF is upping their game to increase market share. If the new hardline tools are premium Taiwanese quality, then they will compete directly with Carlyle, Blue Point, MATCO and MAC. I see it as a win for the DIY guy and the professional. 

[DeadNutz]

$7500 for a tool box? I remember when you could walk out with half the store for $7500.
By introducing the higher quality stuff in the stores under a variety of names I think they are testing the waters to find out how much their customers are willing to pay. If sales/profits start to suffer they will back off a bit.

[Lookin4_67GalaxieConv]

So the description of the generic tool truck box here is a Snap On KRL 722.  Looking forward to seeing what the new HF box is like, but I have a hard time imagining it's anywhere near as nice as a 722.  I've bought a couple of them in the last few months in nice shape for less than half what this HF box will retail for.

[J.A.F.E.]

The store closest to me is one the owner hangs out in - the "son". I know the manager to talk to and presumably he is in touch enough with the owner to know what he's talking about. They are committed, according to said manager, to open 100 stores in two years. Well, that was some months ago but it seems they are on track and it seems almost every mailer I get has a new store (or stores) somewhere in SoCal grand opening coupons.

A pretty aggressive business model and whatever bank is financing it all must be convinced that expansion will be profitable enough to make the note payments. The positioning in the market and price points of the tools have to be a detailed part of the business plan submitted to the bank(s) for the lines of credit so someone thinks it makes sense. These are all company stores I don't think HF franchises so the owner must be convinced it's a good idea or he'd be letting franchisees take the risk.

Having said all that if they more the price points up it limits my interest in their offeringse. At the low end price scale there is reason to buy some things. As that price moves up other options become more attractive to me and I'm a Buy American kind of alien.

[muddy]

I say go for it! Maybe they will bring manufacturing back to the USA!

Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

[pep]

Or bring the good tools back to a more reasoned price structure, no matter for me. I buy good tools, do not lose or break them.

HF had its place in my life, nothing notable, bits a pieces. For instance the last thing I hauled home was a port-o- power, 5 years ago. I used it 4-5 times, came is real handy setting my lathe in place.

I have a Starrett scribe, carbide point, broke the tip off. Replacement, for 2,  23 skins ea. Waited 3 months for the order to be filled and shipped, the reason for getting 2.

Not complaining just what is. I like the way the scribe is made, it's very good at what it does, so I pay the price. I'm the moron that broke it, however learned in the process.

Pep

[TexasT]

As above, Sears and their walk in, brick n mortar model is dead or at least pretty non existent. People have money and few have a need for snap on much less a snap on truck that stops by the house. The business of upgrading your wares to go along with your customers increasing income over time has been practiced by many for decades and maybe centuries. Just look at the car manufacturers.

I find myself hitting the hf with the 20% coupon and the free crap on top of that(magnetic bowl, screw driver set to give the neighbors when they come to borrow, micro fiber towels, who can have too many of these things?). My main wrenches, sockets and ratchets are craftsman, snappy, and matco with some other usa made mixed in. But the engine hoist, engine stand, hydraulic press, and other stuff is chinesium and from hf. Some over twenty yrs old and still doing well(though I have replaced the leaking jack on the press and am sure I'll have to do the cylinder on the hoist one of these days. And I'm getting an air over hydraulic when I do.)

Point is, it is just good business to get higher prices because this equates to a larger margin at the same margin percent. Even if they sell less product they make more money. What better way is there?

[slip knot]

The local sears will be closing after the holidays. That will leave the big box build it stores and a couple of industrial supply houses as the only alternative to Harbor freight. Basic hand tools will be easy to come by but if you need a automotive specialty tool it will be HF for the win. Even if they don't up the quality they can easily jump the price and still get lots of walk in business. 


They've upped their game on some things too. I've been hearing lots of good things about the new Vulcan line of welders. I've been wanting to try my hand at TIG and this may be the machine I wind up with.

[Uncle Buck]

There are a few things I would like to buy at HF like their 1000ft pd impact, and a few other things, but on the whole I do not ever see myself spending a lot of time or money there. I just cannot bring myself to that point.

Sears is gone, so like as not I will find what I want online and order it there. While I have a few bits and pieces that came from Chiwan etc. I will never be able to accept that as an equal to my USA made stuff. I am just old thinking and set in my ways. I only grudgingly accept import tools, and not many at that.

[gtermini]

I see Lowes pushing the new CM line hard on the TV these days. They seem to be gunning for that Harry Homeowner tool niche that garbage freight and Sears held exclusively. More power to HF if they want to take a new market share, but I hate to see them do it with rip-offs of stuff from Kenosha.

Greyson

[bonneyman]

Yeah, pickens overall are going to get thinned down to HD, HF, Lowes, and whatever Craftsman outlets one can find (K-mart, Ace, etc). Though I have not walked into a NAPA lately looking specifically for tools. Auto Zone and O'reileys tool offerings don't do much for me.

I wonder if HF is "upping" their quality as the trade tariffs are going to increase prices anyways. Maybe they're trying to make the most of the lemonade situation?

[Uncle Buck]

I think Proto and Williams deserve a hard look online at this point. I will buy the cheap stuff where impacts are concerned.

[pep]

Auto Zone and O'reileys, never have crossed my mind as a place I'd buy tools. NAPA, I did pick up this cable operated water hose clamp deal ........ Took it right back, would not open the clamp up no matter how much I tweaked the cable stops.

They do have a wide selection of large axle nut type sockets. The general hand tools are over priced I think. In saying that i mean they do not do anything different than a Craftsman wrench.

 NAPA's do look a hell of a lot better, like Snap on. Being someone who's interest in tools is user driven i pass on both.

Did buy a 3 ton Hein-Werner  floor jack, caught on sale, when NAPA was having a floor jack black friday type of sale......

I can tell you this .....it's one hell of a nice, robust floor jack, the poor mans Milwaukee floor jack.


Pep

[34Ply]

Let me get this straight, You won't buy tools at HF because there all cheap Chinese made. Now you won't buy tools there because they are more expensive US made. If you would stop looking down your nose at all tools except your favorite tool truck stuff you might see that some other brand is as good if not better regardless of where it's sold. If you think SO or Mac is not having stuff made in China you better pull your head out of of what ever tool truck it's stuck in. Changing my strut the other day I broke a Craftsman 2" made in the USA extension (from a set 20 years old or so) using a Hf breaker bar and a PT rental socket from Oreillys. I'm thinking now it's more the name of the tool or store that you don't like. If I bought a $100 set of 4 extensions of a truck and the guy next to me has a set for $15 doing the same job it would bother me to. I'm not trying to riel some people up but lets buy tools where we want and don't put down someone that buys from another source than you do.    Oh boy am I in trouble now!!!!!

[goodfellow]

Back in the early 2000s i visited two of the largest tool forging and finishing complexes in Taiwan. At the time they were all making tools for many name brands across the entire globe. They also were ISO 9000 compliant in their manufacturing processes and had the best chrome and finish of any hand tools manufactured anywhere - bar none. 

They made tools for all the major American brands and offered to manufacture to any price point the customer wished. At the time HF had two lines -- the cheapest was the Chinese budget line which was absolutely atrocious, and the HF Professional line which was a quality manufactured product. These days I see the Taiwanese manufactured lines at HF and they are absolutely on par with any of the imported offerings of Snap-On, MAC, Cornwell, or MATCO. I also speculate that the imported American brand tools from Taiwan are probably made in many of the same factories as the Taiwanese offerings from HF -- just manufactured to different specifications and price points. The quality is definitely there.

I'm old enough to remember when Japanese tools were considered junk back in the 1960s, and by the 1980s the premium Japanese brands were equal or better than most of the leading US brands. I believe the same thing is happening with the Taiwanese tool companies.

[Uncle Buck]

Let me get this straight, You won't buy tools at HF because there all cheap Chinese made. Now you won't buy tools there because they are more expensive US made. If you would stop looking down your nose at all tools except your favorite tool truck stuff you might see that some other brand is as good if not better regardless of where it's sold. If you think SO or Mac is not having stuff made in China you better pull your head out of of what ever tool truck it's stuck in. Changing my strut the other day I broke a Craftsman 2" made in the USA extension (from a set 20 years old or so) using a Hf breaker bar and a PT rental socket from Oreillys. I'm thinking now it's more the name of the tool or store that you don't like. If I bought a $100 set of 4 extensions of a truck and the guy next to me has a set for $15 doing the same job it would bother me to. I'm not trying to riel some people up but lets buy tools where we want and don't put down someone that buys from another source than you do.    Oh boy am I in trouble now!!!!!

I will look again, but I don't think I saw anyone passing judgement on others in this thread, but like I said, I will take another look. If I am wrong I do apologize.

I have bought few tools from the truck, though I do own a good number of truck brands. I am not too good to own import tools and do own a few, I will likely add a few more. That said, import tools will never be my go to brand and when economically feasible I do avoid them. Some rarely used tools bought import are a no brainer due to cost.p I do make those concessions at times, but only when used or new brands cannot be procured within my price range.

All that said I make no apologizes for avoiding imports as much as possible, but also do not judge others for their brand decisions in tools, to each his own that is their business. All serious tool buyers know that import tools are now found in virtually all tool brand product lines.

[pep]

Who you talking to... me? You may be misreading what I'm saying. I simply have my preferences, as do others, do not care what others buy and use.

Statements are learned observation  from my own experience. My Lathe and Mill are both offshore produced, and not HF.

If a product, manufacture or POSale can not be discussed or scrutinized, what is the point of a conversation. This is not high school my school is better that your school.

The question becomes would someone stop buying a tool from HF, because I'm not a fan?
Does that not really sound stupid when put into words?

I tell folks what I know, the knowledge comes from a users prospective........  take it of leave it.

Pep

[wreckercologist]

Eh, I suppose time will tell if this is a smart move for them, but I remember the "high end" boxes Sears had......they flopped iirc.

I'm sure their marketing people have numbers to support the idea, but I'll let somebody else be the guinea pig.

This smells of "Edsel" to me....... trying to fill a market segment that doesn't really exist...jmho.

[bonneyman]

Back in the early 2000s i visited two of the largest tool forging and finishing complexes in Taiwan. At the time they were all making tools for many name brands across the entire globe. They also were ISO 9000 compliant in their manufacturing processes and had the best chrome and finish of any hand tools manufactured anywhere - bar none. 

They made tools for all the major American brands and offered to manufacture to any price point the customer wished. At the time HF had two lines -- the cheapest was the Chinese budget line which was absolutely atrocious, and the HF Professional line which was a quality manufactured product. These days I see the Taiwanese manufactured lines at HF and they are absolutely on par with any of the imported offerings of Snap-On, MAC, Cornwell, or MATCO. I also speculate that the imported American brand tools from Taiwan are probably made in many of the same factories as the Taiwanese offerings from HF -- just manufactured to different specifications and price points. The quality is definitely there.

I'm old enough to remember when Japanese tools were considered junk back in the 1960s, and by the 1980s the premium Japanese brands were equal or better than most of the leading US brands. I believe the same thing is happening with the Taiwanese tool companies.

I have been hearing more and more about the quality of certain Taiwanese tools (mainly impact sockets) that are so good people are switching to them apart from the less expensive price. As big name tools just go outta sight on price - and Craftsman has been doing their thing - other smaller companies are rushing to fill the vacuum.
Tekton comes to mind. Some of their stuff is US made, some imported. After buying a tool and putting it through the paces I gotta say I like it and will probably be buying more from them. And Pro America has some dang nice pliers.

Maybe I'm just getting older and less ornery, or maybe I'm just tired of fighting, but I'm not as hardnosed toward foreign tools these days.

[bonneyman]

Eh, I suppose time will tell if this is a smart move for them, but I remember the "high end" boxes Sears had......they flopped iirc.

I'm sure their marketing people have numbers to support the idea, but I'll let somebody else be the guinea pig.

This smells of "Edsel" to me....... trying to fill a market segment that doesn't really exist...jmho.

I think Sears' problem was they had pounded the line "Made in USA, guaranteed forever!" so long that people expectations were skewed. "Why should I pay more for such and such when all their stuff is USA? The cheaper box will work just fine!"

With HF they're universally known as the "cheap" or Chinese place. Some of their stuff was OK, but the overall perception was it was kinda cheesy. Now that they're advertising better quality (at higher prices) it might not smack them like it did Sears.

[34Ply]

I never said anyone was passing judgment on anyone. I have my preferences also. I own all SK stuff. Do I buy from HF for stuff I use once a year or so, sure. I don't think I was out of line with my post. Just my observation.   By the way, my high school was better than yours.  HE HE HE

[fatfillup]

HF socket rails are junk!!!  There I said it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I feel better now

[skfarmer]

i was at hf yesterday. i was also at several other places. i am seriously considering making a very large purchase there as it appears to fit my needs best at a good price.

[gtermini]

i was at hf yesterday. i was also at several other places. i am seriously considering making a very large purchase there as it appears to fit my needs best at a good price.

If you get one of these boxes, you better put a bunch of pictures up, especially of the hang tag. I'm genuinely curious how nice they are. I have one of the 44", and it's wicked deal.

Greyson