Garage Gazette
VEHICLES => DAILY DRIVERS/GROCERY GETTERS => Topic started by: goodfellow on September 02, 2022, 03:44:08 PM
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I'll post the pics later, but the wife's 2012 Traverse was loosing refrigerant over the course of a few months, and for the life of me I couldn't figure out where. Even took it to a shop to have it tested, but they couldn't find the problem either.
A few months back I decided to fill the system with more AC dye and last week I found the leak. Right behind the rear cylinder bank are two hard lines that were rubbing against each other. The low pressure AC line was rubbing against the crimped portion of an adjacent P/S line and there was some significant wear on the AC line. It had developed a very minute pinhole leak. I could see the slightest trace amount of dye with a black light.
Immediate solution was to clean it up and cover the entire spot with a generous amount of JB Weld. I let it cure for a day and then tested and refilled with refrigerant. Surprisingly the JB Weld is holding and no more leak. If it holds for the rest of the season I'll order and install a new line this winter.
If you have an older GM Lambda platform car with the 3.6L V6, then I would strongly suggest you take a look back there and bend the two lines an inch or two apart so they don't have a chance to touch.
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I've had a lot of issues with the schrader valves leaking lately. I dont remember it so bad with the screw on fittings of old but these newer quick connects seem to be a lot more leak prone.
Good find on the line leak. with everything so jammed up under the hood of new cars i'm not surprised.
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Good find Ray! Kinda surprised JB Weld held the pressure then again just being a pin hole probably doesn't have full pressure on it.
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I've had a lot of issues with the schrader valves leaking lately. I dont remember it so bad with the screw on fittings of old but these newer quick connects seem to be a lot more leak prone.
Good find on the line leak. with everything so jammed up under the hood of new cars i'm not surprised.
Agree on the Schrader valve issue. I don't know if they wear out due to repeated gauge attachment, or that the seals just let go after a few years. My daughter's old '05 Highlander has been tight as a drum for almost 20 years (although I did replace the condenser after she had an accident), but our GMs seem to leak after just 5-8 years.
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Good find Ray! Kinda surprised JB Weld held the pressure then again just being a pin hole probably doesn't have full pressure on it.
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Low pressure side and an almost microscopic hole should be OK with JB Weld. Time will tell -- but I'm pretty confident that the fix will last the season.
I also wrapped the crimped end of the adjacent P/S line with tape -- just in case. It was the sharp edges on the crimped P/S line fitting that slowly eroded the AC line. Hopefully this will not reoccur again.
I'm guessing that at assembly the lines were placed in contact (or very close together) with each other, and over time the engine mounts settled and wore out a bit allowing the hoses to make contact.
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Good find Ray! Kinda surprised JB Weld held the pressure then again just being a pin hole probably doesn't have full pressure on it.
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Low pressure side and an almost microscopic hole should be OK with JB Weld. Time will tell -- but I'm pretty confident that the fix will last the season.
I also wrapped the crimped end of the adjacent P/S line with tape -- just in case. It was the sharp edges on the crimped P/S line fitting that slowly eroded the AC line. Hopefully this will not reoccur again.
I'm guessing that at assembly the lines were placed in contact (or very close together) with each other, and over time the engine mounts settled and wore out a bit allowing the hoses to make contact.
Factory doesn't care they just smack them together to get out the door. That should have been taken care of during PDI
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Our 2012 hasn't had AC since we bought it... May have to look into that. Currently have to change the Bank 1 Cat converter..... Shoot me... It requires dropping the transfer case... a bit out of my DIY ability.
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Our 2012 hasn't had AC since we bought it... May have to look into that. Currently have to change the Bank 1 Cat converter..... Shoot me... It requires dropping the transfer case... a bit out of my DIY ability.
Wow -- so sorry to hear that. This was a relatively easy fix, but very hard to track down. I vowed that if the front dash evaporator had failed, I'd trade the car in a minute. I'm too old to strip the dash from one of these monstrosities.
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The heater core went to leaking in my 98 Dodge farm truck. The dash in that thing is so brittle. I know as soon as I touch it, its going to crumble. :91:
Not looking forward to that job BUT also not looking forward to no heat this winter.
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Wow -- so sorry to hear that. This was a relatively easy fix, but very hard to track down. I vowed that if the front dash evaporator had failed, I'd trade the car in a minute. I'm too old to strip the dash from one of these monstrosities.
The plus is, I know one of the Tech's from the local Chevy dealership that's willing to do it "on the side" for me, at a lower rate than the "stealership" charges.....
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The heater core went to leaking in my 98 Dodge farm truck. The dash in that thing is so brittle. I know as soon as I touch it, its going to crumble. :91:
Not looking forward to that job BUT also not looking forward to no heat this winter.
On a dash that old, no matter how careful you are you will break a lot of plastic clips, covers, and fasteners. Good luck -- hope it wors out well for you.
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If you have an older GM Lambda platform car with the 3.6L V6, then I would strongly suggest you take a look back there and bend the two lines an inch or two apart so they don't have a chance to touch.
Good catch Ray. As mentioned in an earlier topic, possibly on the old site, I replaced quite a number of rear evaporators and blower motors in Traverse vehicles. If memory serves me right this may have been earlier than yours but the cause was carbon from the blower brushes attaching to the evaporator causing corrosion and leaking refrigerant.
I recently serviced the AC on my daughter's 2006 Honda Civic. After checking pressures with the manifold gauges I added refrigerant to get the proper pressures based on temp and humidity. When removing a connector from one of the service ports it sprayed away until I attached the cap which I knew was very temporary. When that charge leaked out I took advantage of O'Reilly's free rental on a vacuum pump and bought a new set of schrader valves and some refrigerant for a more permanent fix. There was no charge left so I went to change the valves only to find the newest fix kits only contain the small sized ones and not the larger ones. Fortunately it was the leaking one and I drew a vacuum and recharged the system successfully. When returning the pump I asked about the larger valves and received the "deer in the headlights" look and was told the kits were all they had. Given it was a Sunday afternoon and the A-team was not on duty I tried to be understanding but after working in a dealership with a highly experienced parts guy it is extremely difficult to find anyone at the parts stores with experience.
Just glad it was a R134a not a 1234YF system.
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............ Just glad it was a R134a not a 1234YF system.
Great detective work Nick! Glad you held in there and found the problem. Can you imagine the cost if it was a 1234y system -- that stuff is literally worth it's weight in Gold -- LOL. People don't realize the monumental costs incurred when servicing 1234y systems.
I'm sticking with older cars -- and have plenty of 134a stashed away.
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Apparently this hose rubbing issue is a common problem. This gent mentions the issue in the first part of his video. I knew about the rear evaporator leaking issues. Many DIY guys simply purchase a $50 rear AC block--off kit and eliminate the problem with a cheap fix, but the the more sinister issue is that AC and P/S hose line routing on the rear of the engine.
If you look at the vid starting at the 0:50 second mark he identifies the problem as a know issue.
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... Given it was a Sunday afternoon and the A-team was not on duty I tried to be understanding but after working in a dealership with a highly experienced parts guy it is extremely difficult to find anyone at the parts stores with experience.
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My late FIL was a parts guy most of his life and was very good. He knew parts, he knew brands, he knew the problems and he had an almost encyclopedic memory of part numbers.
After he retired and lazed around a while he got bored and tried to get a job in a parts store and no one wanted him. Not because of his age and not because he wanted a lot of money. They were afraid once the regulars learned how good he was they wouldn't want to deal with anyone else. They probably had a point.
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... Given it was a Sunday afternoon and the A-team was not on duty I tried to be understanding but after working in a dealership with a highly experienced parts guy it is extremely difficult to find anyone at the parts stores with experience.
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..........They were afraid once the regulars learned how good he was they wouldn't want to deal with anyone else. They probably had a point.
For decades I only dealt with two guys that used to work at the local "mom 'n pop". When the mom 'n pop went out of business, these guys had the knowledge and experience that would have made any parts operation proud. No other parts distributors wanted them because the store managers knew that they'd make the rest of them look like amateurs. They both were in their late 60s (early 70s) and had been in the business most of their adult lives.
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... Given it was a Sunday afternoon and the A-team was not on duty I tried to be understanding but after working in a dealership with a highly experienced parts guy it is extremely difficult to find anyone at the parts stores with experience.
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..........They were afraid once the regulars learned how good he was they wouldn't want to deal with anyone else. They probably had a point.
For decades I only dealt with two guys that used to work at the local "mom 'n pop". When the mom 'n pop went out of business, these guys had the knowledge and experience that would have made any parts operation proud. No other parts distributors wanted them because the store managers knew that they'd make the rest of them look like amateurs. They both were in their late 60s (early 70s) and had been in the business most of their adult lives.
Not to take this tooo far off Ray's original topic but this is my experience exactly. When Advance Auto bought out CarQuest the local CQ which had an experienced staff closed down and now they all seem to be just a walk-up Amazon or Rock Auto.
When approaching a parts counter I always lead with year, make, model and engine having the VIN if needed. I can always tell an experienced parts guy who either has a full recall memory or always has a pen and paper to jot the info down. Today's parts staff will only remember the first thing you said and then ask each question as the computer screen updates.