Author Topic: The F-23: Probably the best aircraft the USAF didn't buy  (Read 2338 times)

Offline bonneyman

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The F-23: Probably the best aircraft the USAF didn't buy
« on: July 11, 2021, 07:38:23 PM »
Of the many aircraft that never made it into production the YF-23 "Black Widow" was probably the most intriguing. At the time it was passed over for the YF-22, and I always thought that was strange. It really was an amazing aircraft. So I thought I'd collate some of the sources I've read about it, and put down some of my observations.

Offline bonneyman

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Re: The F-23: Probably the best aircraft the USAF didn't buy
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2021, 10:31:19 PM »
This website gives a pretty good overall comparison between the F-23 and it's contemporaries.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-23-specs.htm

The general consensus from all I've read is the F-23 had better stealth, higher supercruise and top speed, and longer range. The F-22 had better agility, more conventional design and construction, and more space for weapons. Though at the start of the competition agility was not a top requirement - that only became a priority about midway through. So the F-23 hadn't been designed from that standpoint and did suffer some as it didn't have thrust vectoring rear nozzles.

The test pilot who flew both prototypes gives his impressions. Some aspects of the program are still classified - some 30 years after the tests were completed.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27309/the-only-man-who-flew-both-the-f-22-and-the-yf-23-on-why-the-yf-23-lost
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 10:43:24 PM by bonneyman »

Offline bonneyman

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Re: The F-23: Probably the best aircraft the USAF didn't buy
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2021, 10:35:08 PM »
There were two engine prototypes created for the program (GE and Pratt & Whitney), and each airframe tested a set of each engine so as to evenly compare both the engine performance and airframes. As I recall the GE engines seemed to be alot better in the F-23 airframe - markedly so. I'll have to find that reference.
Found it - it's buried in this link:
https://www.yahoo.com/now/win-f-23-stealth-jet-010000768.html

This link has a good video of the prototype taxi-ing and flying.

https://www.wmof.com/yf23a.htm
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 10:42:11 PM by bonneyman »

Offline bonneyman

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Re: The F-23: Probably the best aircraft the USAF didn't buy
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2021, 10:52:28 PM »
Rarely do we have the opportunity to see what such a competition ends up delivering after all the hoopla settles and decades have transpired. Most often prototype aircraft change significantly once put into regular production and service. Sometimes performance improves in some ways, other times the delivered performance is short of the goals.

The decision in 1991 against the F-23 has not faded in the minds of many admirers - there is still heated debate in various quarters that the F-22 has fallen short and maybe we should bring back the F-23. Certainly the latest Chinese and Russian stealth aircraft designs draw heavily from the technology of the F-23 basic design, so, it's obvious it has merit.

The F-22 supercruise sped has increased from Mach 1.6 to Mach 1.82 according to some sites. And it's top speed is Mach 2.25 (which is higher than the YF-23 prototype) https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/could-the-yf-23-have-been-better-than-the-f-22/

And it has proven to be extremely agile in all flight regimes. But the inflation of the cost has far exceeded what estimates were during the flyoff - which was a major factor in it's choice.

One has to wonder what the F-23 would have been able to do if it had been chosen and 30 years of advancement had been applied to it. No wondering about it - some aviation artist and engineer has done exactly that!

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/24911/this-is-what-a-northrop-f-23a-wouldve-looked-like-if-lockheed-lost-the-atf-competition
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 11:02:26 PM by bonneyman »

Offline bonneyman

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Re: The F-23: Probably the best aircraft the USAF didn't buy
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2021, 05:46:19 PM »
A weapons layout chart showing what armament the F-23 could have carried. Never saw it before today. Doesn't look like all this stuff could be carried internally (thus affecting stealth) but does show how much could be carried with a little ingenuity.
For reference:

https://www.deviantart.com/b-l-u-e-y/art/YF-23-Weapon-Loadout-Specs-229238529

Some great commentary and lots of awesome pics and drawings of the Black Widow:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/yf-23-the-worlds-only-invisible-airplane.350360/page-2
« Last Edit: July 12, 2021, 05:52:49 PM by bonneyman »

Offline bonneyman

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Re: The F-23: Probably the best aircraft the USAF didn't buy
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2021, 06:44:57 PM »
Apparently the F-23 had an operational range of 2800 miles - 1000 mile more than the F-22 even with external tanks.

https://www.businessinsider.com/united-states-air-force-yf-23-plane-lost-to-f-22-2013-1#the-jet-had-a-wingspan-of-nearly-44-feet-about-the-same-as-the-f-22-and-both-only-had-room-for-only-one-pilot-4

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2020/12/yf-23-stealth-fighter-a-better-plane-than-the-f-22-raptor/

And though both aircraft exhibited total controllability at angles of attack up to 60 degrees, the F-23 had shown it could maintain that control to 70 degrees angle of attack. That's getting pretty close to vertical!

A good explanation of the program from start to finish:

http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/f23_1.html
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 06:51:51 PM by bonneyman »

Offline bonneyman

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Re: The F-23: Probably the best aircraft the USAF didn't buy
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2021, 06:52:58 PM »
I've always found Air Power Australia to have deep and informative analysis.

And they did an article on the ATF program.

http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-ATF-91.html