Feeding the addiction!

[Uncle Buck]

I can't seem to shake occasionally buying tools I have little likelihood of ever needing, or using. I am speaking of precision measuring equipment right now. For some years I have had micrometers up to 6" in capacity which for most guys dinking around a home shop should more than meet their needs, if not exceed their needs. I think all except one I bought new and are either Starrett, or Mitutoyo.  I don't recall ever using anything but maybe the 1,2 and 3 inch sizes, and not once ever using the larger sizes. So, why on earth do I keep looking at buying  used 7, 8 and 9" sizes on the cheap? I have resisted so far, but one of these days in a moment of weakness I bet I buy a used 7", probably a Lufkin because they are often cheaper and I am a fan of them.

I think guys like me can slow down buying tools you really don't need, but much like an alcoholic you keep the addiction until you die! LOL

[goodfellow]

I'm with ya Herb! Like you I've have lots of tools for most everything I'll ever need to do either mechanically or metalworking. That said, I can't resist good measuring tools at yard sales and auctions. Like you, I look at the off-brands as well. Everyone wants Starrett, Mitutoyo, or Brown & Sharpe while the off brands are ignored. I also go for Lufkin, Craftsman (mostly Starrett), NSK, and  Scheer - Tumico. They usually sell for much less --

[Uncle Buck]

Exactly! The lesser known and appreciated brands are a magnet for me. An even older and much more likely to be passed over brands that I have bought several of used and gave my dad when he was still alive J.T. Slowcumb brand is also worth consideration used. Lufkin I greatly favor. I like everything Lufkin I ever bought. I think this is because as a kid, my dad had only one mic, a 1" with an army green colored frame. Pop taught me how to read a mic, how to properly hold a mic, and the rules of care for a mic with that old Lufkin. Of all the mics I own that old 1" Lufkin is my favorite for obvious reasons.

Through the years I added depth mics, ID mics, dial indicator sets, mag bases, dial calipers, dividers, combination squares, small hole gage sets and telescoping gages and numerous other odds and ends. Aside from larger mic sizes I am looking to add a set of V blocks and clamps and a set of adjustable parallels.  It is like I never find an end to just one or two more odds and ends that I see great benfit in having. So there ya go, it just never ends.

[Uncle Buck]

Also, Craftsman brand and Gem are always up for consideration for me. For some things I give equal consideration to even General brand stuff! One brand I am less drawn to, but would consider is Central brand usually the brand sold off of the tool trucks. For some reason I was just never drawn to the Central brand.

[oldcarguy]

I understand the addiction to precision measuring instruments. I purchase this Lufkin # 1911 one inch micrometer new 60 years ago, and even have the box it came in.. It's my go to micrometer yet today. Over the years I have added a number more to keep it company in my Gerstner tool chest.





did someone mention adjustable parallels? Along with a planer set gage and some homemade angle setting triangles and precision squares.



If that is not enough. I have two sets of 0-6” and one set of 6” to 12” in a cabinet...





Here's my first set of vernier calipers. No dials or digital readout. The oustide scale in on one side, while the inside on the flip side of the calipers.  Need a good set of eyes reading them; but accuracy could easily done. I have at least six more sets of dial and or digital 6” calipers, one set 12” and one set 24”..




Two sets of  internal micrometer to 12”. Numberous sets of depth micromters. One 2” base, most are 4” bases, and one is 5” base.. Then I have a blade 0-6” set depth mics that handy to get into narrow places or small ledges..









I have three 12” dial height gages and one 18”. I prefer a dial over digital if not having to replace batteries..



Several sets of precision (inspection grade) gage block sets



Pin gages from .010" to .625" in .001" incriements..







Numeroius indicators and plate gages.  Then there's this milling machine head tramming indicator. To true a mill head to the table.

[Uncle Buck]

What a stunning and enviable assortment,  all of them just top notch OCG! You mentioned and showed examples of one tool that is on my short list, the planer gage. I would like to add one for setting up my shapers. Do you see the round pin attachments for your gages as critical or nice to have available in practice? My use of a planer gage is a bit rusty since the last shaper I actually made a part on was was most of 40 years ago, even though I own two small shapers.

[oldcarguy]

What a stunning and enviable assortment,  all of them just top notch OCG! You mentioned and showed examples of one tool that is on my short list, the planer gage. I would like to add one for setting up my shapers. Do you see the round pin attachments for your gages as critical or nice to have available in practice? My use of a planer gage is a bit rusty since the last shaper I actually made a part on was was most of 40 years ago, even though I own two small shapers.

Most machinists let alone a seller today have no idea what a planer gage is nor how to use one. Hence they're inexpensive to purchase. I find it handy using the extension pin to increase the overall height of the gage.

[Uncle Buck]

Though it has been years since I used one I don't anticipate issues making use of one once I actually put it to use. I didn't recall using the attachment pin, but intend to buy one with the pins when I get around to buying one.

[john k]

I was trained by a machinist that was originally a watch repairman.  He thought in hundred thousands rather than thousandths.  I started using my father's 0-1 starrett mic.  Had it in my tool box at work, then replaced it with a General, felt it was worth too much to me to have someone (borrow) it.  So now my big tool boxes are in my own garage and the Starret is in there again.  Recently bought another set of mics, 0 -5, with inside snap gauges.   Used of course but showing no wear,  Mitutoyo if I recall.  I have a stainless vernier caliper, direct read.  Co-workers all had dial calipers, couldn't see how mine could be accurate,  mine didn't even use batteries!  Have reined the tool buying, some, what helps is to spend time in the shop just handling your tools.  So when you are tempted by the shiny stuff on the table, listen to that little voice saying:  leave it be, yours are nicer!

[oldcarguy]

We have so much to thank for the knowledge passed on by older toolmakers/machinists. Nothing can compete with experience. Been there done that the saying. And some of the newer instruments and equipment are no better than old. Both old and new machines produce the same results. I have one of the latest and best CNC machines. Yet I'm quick to produce the part on my 75 year old Kearney Trecker mill than CNC. By the time it takes to make up a program and test runs. I'll have the part finished the old fashioned way.. Increasing the volume from one to to four. The CNC wins hands down though..

[Uncle Buck]

Since starting this thread I fell off the wagon and bought a 7" Lufkin mic, a 9" Starrett,  and am bidding on an 8" B & S and 10" Starrett.

I had not intended to also buy the 8 & 10 inch mics I am bidding on now, but reasoned that if I bought them from the same seller as I did the 9" Starrett I could save a lot through bundled shipping.

Speaking of costs, sadly precision measuring tools do not hold their value well if ebay is any indication of what one might expect to get if selling their tools. Literally tons of stuff on ebay, much for pennies on the dollar of their original cost.

If I win the two I am currently bidding on, I will have roughly $100 in all four mics with tax and shipping!

That will be for a 6-7, 7-8, 8-9, and 9-10! That is just sad, even if they are old and used.

[john k]

Could it be that the demise of the 1 and 2 man machine shops, CNC machining,  and repair shops that only remove & replace are the cause of these low prices?  I believe so. 

[Uncle Buck]

Maybe so, in particular 8" and larger mics of every brand can be bought dirt cheap. Especially so for those without cases.

[bonneyman]

What a stunning and enviable assortment,  all of them just top notch OCG! You mentioned and showed examples of one tool that is on my short list, the planer gage. I would like to add one for setting up my shapers. Do you see the round pin attachments for your gages as critical or nice to have available in practice? My use of a planer gage is a bit rusty since the last shaper I actually made a part on was was most of 40 years ago, even though I own two small shapers.

 

[Uncle Buck]

With my tool addiction, once I fall from the abstinence wagon, like a drunk I go on a bender. When I started this thread I was adding one 6-7 " micrometer. By the time I have finished I will have bought a mix of brands used that takes me to 12" capacity. In one of the deals I have in the works I am buying 8-9 & 9-10" B & S  mics with wood boxes and a well used set of Mitutoyo standards 1-11" in a wood box as well. All three came from industry and appear well used, but for less than $60 to my door I will take thet deal.

Yup, the addiction never ends. I still have to buy one 7-8" to complete the set. I think that might hold me for awhile.......then, maybe not. I am itching to add a set of V blocks, a planer gage, and a set of adjustable parallels, so we will see.

[john k]

This week while cleaning, to make room for my truck repair, discovered a boxed set of tap & dies.  Green box, Hansen brand, SAE, 1/16th to 1/2.  Was in an auction box we unloaded last summer when we were busy.  Love it when something nice appears in the shop one has  no knowledge of.  Guess this doesn't count as going on a bender.

[Uncle Buck]

Nevertheless,  great news!

[The Magic Ratchet]

Awesome!

[Uncle Buck]

Well, since I started this thread, I am too embarrassed to admit the number of micrometers that I have bought that I knew when I bought them that I had absolutely no need for. A number of purchases have been for things that I could actually see putting to use, and several things I likely had little reason to ever expect to use.  As I have admitted before, I have never been a professional machinist, but do get along fairly well for a guy that just dinks around in a home shop environment. 

Today, I made another purchase that I should probably have passed on due to the small likelihood I will ever put it to use. I bought a Brown and Sharpe  Universal Protractor head dirt cheap because it was missing both a case, and it's blades.

What few examples of correct blades I have found so far, cost far more than I could justify spending on the Protractor. I already knew when I bought the head finding replacement blades at a price I could justify would be unlikely and possibly a  long wait if I waited to find them on Ebay.

I reasoned then, and now that I could find some stainless steel flat stock of appropriate dimensions and mill a groove in each and cut each end at 45 degrees like the originals to make the Protractor a functional tool.

On the off chance that any member here for some freak reason has B & S Protractor blade, or blades 6 & 12" they have no need for and would like to sell, please do contact me.

On the off chance any member feels inclined to make a set of replacement blades, for pay of course,  please contact me to discuss that possibility as well. This is a job I do feel skilled enough to make myself given the limited capacity of my small mill. Sadly, as most here know, for the last few years my shop has been too cluttered to do much work in and it continues to be that way.

Certainly,  this project can wait for me to do, but I thought there was no harm in sharing it with the group to see if I could make progress with it here.

[oldcarguy]

Well, since I started this thread, I am too embarrassed to admit the number of micrometers that I have bought that I knew when I bought them that I had absolutely no need for. A number of purchases have been for things that I could actually see putting to use, and several things I likely had little reason to ever expect to use.  As I have admitted before, I have never been a professional machinist, but do get along fairly well for a guy that just dinks around in a home shop environment. 

Today, I made another purchase that I should probably have passed on due to the small likelihood I will ever put it to use. I bought a Brown and Sharpe  Universal Protractor head dirt cheap because it was missing both a case, and it's blades.

What few examples of correct blades I have found so far, cost far more than I could justify spending on the Protractor. I already knew when I bought the head finding replacement blades at a price I could justify would be unlikely and possibly a  long wait if I waited to find them on Ebay.

I reasoned then, and now that I could find some stainless steel flat stock of appropriate dimensions and mill a groove in each and cut each end at 45 degrees like the originals to make the Protractor a functional tool.

On the off chance that any member here for some freak reason has B & S Protractor blade, or blades 6 & 12" they have no need for and would like to sell, please do contact me.


On the off chance any member feels inclined to make a set of replacement blades, for pay of course,  please contact me to discuss that possibility as well. This is a job I do feel skilled enough to make myself given the limited capacity of my small mill. Sadly, as most here know, for the last few years my shop has been too cluttered to do much work in and it continues to be that way.

Certainly,  this project can wait for me to do, but I thought there was no harm in sharing it with the group to see if I could make progress with it here.

I have worked and or been in charge of manufacturing plants my entire career and picked up a ton of knowledge. I was lucky to have a number of great mentors that inspired me along the way. I have been reading your posts going on twenty years. And have learned to respect your knowledge and abilities as well. And have used some of your thought processes in my endeavors. ie.. The safety advice when I was setting up my paint booth 15 years ago.
 
Lets say it's payback time. Having all the equipment in my workshop. I gladly offer to machine the blades for your Brown & Sharp Protractor. All that I ask is that you pay for the material. I would suggest 4140 flat ground stock. If you rather have it made from Stainless Steel, go with a 400 rather than a 300 series.  Being magnetic my surface grinder chucks will easily hold the blade. Anyhow I rather not get out my vacuum chuck set up. Plus the 400 series is far tougher and still stain resistant. You could flash chrome the 4140 steel finished blade if you're looking for best corrosion resistance.
There should be a standard size stock best suited to be used as blanks for your B&S Protractor. My Stiefelmayer is .068” by .630...  We'll have to determine the size needed for the B&S.

[Elroy]

Herb is fully polished professional with a wealth of industrial experience. Such  as yourself. Elroy can't answer the questions directly as our examples are not B&S however if you wish dimensions off of these, we can help.

[oldcarguy]

I have that same Starrett combination square set, with both 12” and 24” scales. Then I have an array of Brown & Sharpe heads and blades.





However Herb talking about a different animal. It called a Precision Brown & Sharpe Bevel Protractor. The good news the blades have to increments stamped. They have a Vernier scales to precisely set angles.  Looks very siminlar to my Stiefelmayer Precision Bevel Protractor. That the blades are .068” by .630”.

[Uncle Buck]

OCG and Elroy. Both of you are too kind in your comments. I  can assure both of you for sure,  and several others on this site that quickly come to mind that every one of you gentlemen have likely forgotten more about incredible skill, knowledge and shop/mechanical talent than I could ever hope to equal! I have learned so much from guys like yourselves, and GF in particular and am very grateful for what I have learned from those smarter than me!

Elroy,  thank you for answering the call for help, but OCG accurately describes my situation better than I did.

OCG, I absolutely wish to take you up on your offer! As to the choice of material used for the manufacture of the blades I leave the choice of material up to you. My protractor is nice, but certainly not the most pristine example to be found and as such probably does not rate the most choice or premium material for the blades if the difference in the cost of materials used in the blades is significant. I cannot imagine that any one of the materials mentioned would not result in magnificent blades.

PM me the information I will need to send you my protractor head. There is no timeline on the project, only the one imposed by you.

Again, thanks so very much to both you and Elroy for responding to my request. I suspect that waiting to find blades on ebay would have been a long wait indeed!

[oldcarguy]

   Lets get the ball rolling..

[Uncle Buck]

Looking forward to it sir!

[goodfellow]

Very cool gents! True to form, OCG will most likely machine/grind replacement blades to higher tolerances than the OEM.

[Uncle Buck]

Very cool gents! True to form, OCG will most likely machine/grind replacement blades to higher tolerances than the OEM.

Likely so, Certainly whatever he does will far exceed anything I could have produced in my little shop with my less than impressive machines, tooling, and abilities! Count me far beyond humbled and grateful!

[oldcarguy]

I just found the Holy Grail! 

Early this morning I texted a tool and die maker that I trained some 40 years ago. One of his coworkers has a Brown & Sharpe 496. I don't know the difference from your 495, may just be the blade length. I bet they use the same blade though..  We're going to make this work!

[oldcarguy]

Here's the Brown 7 Sharpe 495



Here's the Brown & Sharpe 496.. It has an extra movable beam. Both have the same head and blades

[Uncle Buck]

Yes, it is the extra blade and the hole that is on the head part to accomodate the use of that extra blade. I understand if one is fortunate enough to have that extra blade it enhances the versatility of the tool greatly. I think aside from that hole the heads are identical. There is no reason they would not be. That end has nothing to do with where the blade rides.

[oldcarguy]

My friend relayed the blade dimensions for the Brown & Sharpe 496. It's .062" by .635... That's within a few thousands of my Stiefelmayer blade, @ (.068" by .632").

Do you wish that I make both a 12" and 6" blades for you? I will then order the stock

[Uncle Buck]

Absolutely, I would be foolish not to! Advise as to cost of material. Can I pay for material with PayPal?

[Uncle Buck]

My friend relayed the blade dimensions for the Brown & Sharpe 496. It's .062" by .635... That's within a few thousands of my Stiefelmayer blade, @ (.068" by .632").

Do you wish that I make both a 12" and 6" blades for you? I will then order the stock

I thought the depth of the groove would also be critical  as well as confirmation that it sits dead center on the blade too.

[oldcarguy]

The groove in the blade on My Stiefelmayer is off center by .008”. And locks in place either way the blade is inserted int the head. The groove in the B&S 496 that I'm using as an example is .006 off center too. I bet there's some leeway of the location of the groove and the width for that matter..

The smaller of the two knurled locking screws has a cam on the underside. When rotated a tab on the underside catches the edge of the groove of the blade. Locking it into place on the head. Either direction will lock it. The depth of the groove is not important. It's simply clearance for a small locking tab. I wouldn't be surprised that the Stiefelmayer blade would work with the B&S head...

In any event I will check to see if the blades a interchangeable.

The protractor really has some marvelous engineering put into it.... 

[Uncle Buck]

Your thoughts on interchangeability I absolutely suspected myself, though my hunch was simply based on the appearance of blades in pictures.  Regarding the groove,  I was clueless and thought the depth would be critical.  Starrett blades are a much different animal in that the groove is offset and clearly nowhere near the center of the blade. Additionally both ends of their blade are not opposed like every other I saw, but instead angled the same way. On an unrelated note, this type of protractor instrument must not have been one of Lufkins product offerings because I never found even one example which struck me as odd.

[Uncle Buck]

I find the beauty of this style instrument nothing short of a work of art. Honestly,  I am not terribly worried if I ever put it to use! That would be nice, but not one of my conditions for owning the tool. I do want it functional and accurate as much as possible like every other tool I own. That said, simply the love of the tool and its beauty alone could never justify heavy investment, but at a more modest figure it more than satisfies me.

Surprising how many folks there are trying to sell bladeless versions of this tool in various brands at great cost. I knew due to researching prior to purchase that even with ebay, blades would be tough to find used, and quite costly new so making blades would need to be seriously considered. A cheap import might have been robbed of its blades and case and might have worked, however it would likely have been a very long time before I would have ever seriously considered that an option for me. OCG offering to make the blades is more than I ever expected as the answer to  my dilemma.  Like GF said, the blades he makes will likely be better quality than what could have been sourced from B & S when the tool was new!

[oldcarguy]

I'm doing some testing. I cut off a foot from a from a piece of .190" by 1" cold rolled steel i had hanging around. As you can see it's bent. There's always issues when grinding thin pieces of steel. The power of the magnetic chuck will draw the work piece down. And the final result the piece will wrap back. The stock will be parallel. But not flat.

One needs to shim the piece and take the high spots off. Then flip it over, shim, and take the high spots off. After five flips, it came out both parallel and flat.. The stock started at .190" and not it's now .140"..

The other option is to place the work piece at 45 degrees on the chuck if it's still wrapped.

My grinder has a very strong fine pole permanent magnet. And hold smaller pieces better.. And has a great supply of coolant to keep the work from heating up.. Did I ever mention that I really like my surface grinder


Before..




Finished ground...

Flip side...



 

[Uncle Buck]

I have only had one experience operating a surface grinder. Looking back, I wish I had practiced on several scrap pieces of material to get a feel for using the machine before trashing my final project for the class, a tool makers vise. Sadly, after destroying the vise not enough time remained in the semester to make another. I do recall it did not take many passes under that grinding wheel to trash my parts! Lesson learned. I feel more at home on a lathe, mill, and a shaper.

[oldcarguy]

The surface grinder was always my favorite machine to run. Like any piece of equipment. You need to learn to respect it, and understand its' capabilities. Precision vises are a great accessory to have and makes holding work pieces easy. Here's a few that I was able to make over the years. I was a mere fourteen years old on this one. It's made of O-1 oil hardening tool steel hardened to 60 RC. This design is far more difficult to make; but has its' advantage in use. Note the two piece screw design,, the smaller on is a LH thread. While the bigger one is RH. Turning the handle moves the jaw twice the distance, yet a stronger holding power than a coarser thread... And has a nice flip up "speed Lever" added to the knob...





All the other are made from low carbon steel and case hardened. Called Nitriding Where Nitrogen is diffussed into the surface making it 70 RC. . Leaving the core soft and more stable.  Baby one, And a sine vise.. All are still within tenths of being square.

[Elroy]

that little flip down speeder handle is neat.

[Uncle Buck]

Those are some incredible vises you made for sure, especially that first one you showed. I have never seen another vise of that design.

[oldcarguy]

Thanks for your compliment. You'd be hard pressed to find a grinding vise made like mine is. And with few if any examples 60 years ago. I studied stanard machine vises of the day and took it from there.  A lot of thought was put into building them.. I have two of them and both are four inches across the jaw.   The underside shows the way the movable jaw is kept true. There's a tongue below the jaw surface that runs in a channel of the main frame. That was a real trick to grind a 3/4" wide slot. A small die grinder was mounted on the spindle of an old Hammond 6" by 18" hand surface grinder. The double thread idea does two things. The jaw moves twice as far per rotation of the screw. Plus there's half the amount of screw travel out the end. Making a shorted overall length.



Here's a few more of my home made vises. These were styled after the Suburban Tool designs, made 50 years ago. Far less amount of work needed to compete. Three inch and two inch size.



Here's a small sine bar,, 5" centers



compound sine plates both have five inch centers.. Six by six inches









   

[Elroy]

Elroy would call that 4140 ideal if the rule had to be thinned. a prehard stock near size would be real good. maybe an air hard A2

[oldcarguy]

I am narrowing it down to pre-hard 4140 about 28 to 30 RC. Air Hardening A2 is too soft in the annealed state and I don't care to get into heat treating. You never know how wrapped it would be afterwards.   

[oldcarguy]

I just return from picking up the flat ground stock for the blade. Being 18" long, I plan on cutting the two blade, One 6" and one 12", from this 18" piece. I'll cut it at 45 degree angle to make each a tad longer longer then stated 12" and 6" lengths. The stock is .093 thick by .750 wide. I'll have to remove 1/8" from the width. And have .030 stock to remove from the thickness.

I ordered a 4140 stock, and the paper work indicates that. But as you can see the package indicates it 4142.. Most circles claim they're one of the same. The 4142 has a bit more carbon. Giving the steel a few points harder. Not an issue in my book...

[oldcarguy]

The thickness started off at .092. And took off .010 each side, leaving .072 now. After machining and grinding the width of the blade to .632.  I will go onto my next operation of milling the center groove and putting the 45 degree  angles on the ends of the blades..

The 18" long blade is parallel to .0001. And .072 this end. You can see a tiny burr of steel (maybe but a few thousands thick) being peeled off the corner on this picture.



.072 other end. The proves  the grinder grinds parallel... Less than a tenth in 18" at least 



I'm taking .0005" with a .050 cross feed increments.And plenty of coolant to keep the blade flat  Only small amount of sparks, evenly over the entire length.



 
 

[Uncle Buck]

Man that is some good looking stock. I bet it will make stunning blades!

[Uncle Buck]

Quality in material shows, even in raw stock.

[oldcarguy]

I'm glad you see and appreciate the quality.. It cost you $40.00 big ones...

[Uncle Buck]

I'm doing some testing. I cut off a foot from a from a piece of .190" by 1" cold rolled steel i had hanging around. As you can see it's bent. There's always issues when grinding thin pieces of steel. The power of the magnetic chuck will draw the work piece down. And the final result the piece will wrap back. The stock will be parallel. But not flat.

One needs to shim the piece and take the high spots off. Then flip it over, shim, and take the high spots off. After five flips, it came out both parallel and flat.. The stock started at .190" and not it's now .140"..

The other option is to place the work piece at 45 degrees on the chuck if it's still wrapped.

My grinder has a very strong fine pole permanent magnet. And hold smaller pieces better.. And has a great supply of coolant to keep the work from heating up.. Did I ever mention that I really like my surface grinder


Before..




Finished ground...

Flip side...



 

It is amazing that you can take a pice of old garden variety cold rolled steel and after some passes under the wheel of a surface grinder it looks like high quality material and not what it actually is. The surface grinder really wakes up the appearance of the material and hides very well the low pedigree of this garden variety material.

[Uncle Buck]

I'm glad you see and appreciate the quality.. It cost you $40.00 big ones...

$40.00 is chump change for what I am getting in return in my opinion. I anticipated half again that cost, or twice the price. I  am not familiar with the going rate for quality material these days, but suspect that it has taken a dramatic price hike over the last couple of years, so I expected it would likely be considerably more than that!

[oldcarguy]

I decided to made a fixture plate to hold the blade from a piece of 1/2" by 17" long aluminum plate I had sitting around. I put three hole to clamp it to the mill table. Using t-slot nuts and 1/2" bolts. Then made four clamps from the test strip I had ground earlier. And drilled & tapped four  5/16"-18 holes for the clamp screws. Then milled a step .075 deep by 3/4" wide where the blade will be mounted. Making it easier to set up after the blade is removed without indicating each time..

I am now in the process of milling the blade to the correct width plus .020" left for clean up grinding. Using a 3/4" four flute end mill and taking .015" per pass. The mill has auto feed so I can do other things around the shop between passes. I'm taking it easy as to not put any more stress than need be into the blade.. Another two passes and should be finished milling. Next milling the center grove...

[oldcarguy]

Finished the milling width,, de-burred machined edges. put on die-blue and using height gage,, marked layout lines for the groove. Clamped back in mill, ready to cut groove. I'll be using the small carbide mill for this operation.. It's on the foreground of last picture.. I have a grandson's birthday party and will have to quit for now... There's always tomorrow... 
.





I have yet to receive the head from you. And kind of shooting in the dark. I'm making the blade to the dimension my friend sent me. And feel safe that it will work on your head. 

[Uncle Buck]

I never got a mailing address to send the head to. I hate to admit this, but I don't even know your real name! I did ask where to send the head though.
 

[Uncle Buck]

OCG and Elroy. Both of you are too kind in your comments. I  can assure both of you for sure,  and several others on this site that quickly come to mind that every one of you gentlemen have likely forgotten more about incredible skill, knowledge and shop/mechanical talent than I could ever hope to equal! I have learned so much from guys like yourselves, and GF in particular and am very grateful for what I have learned from those smarter than me!

Elroy,  thank you for answering the call for help, but OCG accurately describes my situation better than I did.

OCG, I absolutely wish to take you up on your offer! As to the choice of material used for the manufacture of the blades I leave the choice of material up to you. My protractor is nice, but certainly not the most pristine example to be found and as such probably does not rate the most choice or premium material for the blades if the difference in the cost of materials used in the blades is significant. I cannot imagine that any one of the materials mentioned would not result in magnificent blades.

PM me the information I will need to send you my protractor head. There is no timeline on the project, only the one imposed by you.

Again, thanks so very much to both you and Elroy for responding to my request. I suspect that waiting to find blades on ebay would have been a long wait indeed!

This was where I said I needed to send the head. I didn't find anything in my PM though. Once you said your friend supplied dimensions I figured you must not need the head. I feel bad, I would have been happy to send the head.   

[oldcarguy]

I did send where to send the head.. But after checking my sent messages. Nothing was there.. Must have closed the page and not hitting the send button. No doubt it was a senior moment on my account. With any luck, and the dam doesn't break. I should have the two blades finished this weekend. And I'll just send them off to you. Please forward where to send them.

As far as the payment for the material. Simply donate it to the GarageGazette. I'm sure the powers to be will appreciate it.

[Uncle Buck]

I can't tell you how many times I have done the exact same thing! Working from dimensions of the same model I would bet money on satisfactory end results. I will PM the ship to address and make sure Rusty is paid per your instructions.

[oldcarguy]

This is the final cut to make the groove.



Took a light clean up grinding pass to each side of the blade. Then tried it in both heads that I have. Works great... I also need to take .005 of the long edges.





Between passes machining the groove in the mill. I made a setup to precisely grind the 45 degree to the ends using my 6" by 12" magnet sine plate and Vise. I was hoping it would fit under the wheel on my small grinder. It would if I took off the chuck,, but that's too much work.. I
ll just use my big one...





I shall finish it off tomorrow. I took out an 18 pound stuffed turkey for dinner tonight. And just finished whipping of the potatoes.. It's an easy meal to make, actually takes little time. The price was right this season, $.70 per pound for ButterBall Brand.. And stocked up my freezer. I have turkey at least eight times a year. Besides working on cars and machines. The OldCarGuy shops for and cooks all the meals in the household...





 

[Uncle Buck]

Man, I thought I was doing great following the pictures and description of the sequence of events, and I was doing great. Then you had to show that turkey and stuffing and now I am just hungry!

The blades are looking beautiful too!

[zeke]

I'm absolutely jealous of everything about that B & S protractor. Both the find and the recreation of the blade. Just wow.

[goodfellow]

Don't know whether to drool over the bird or the blade  -- LOL

Good job on both fronts OCG.

[Uncle Buck]

Don't know whether to drool over the bird or the blade  -- LOL

I started out drooling over the blade, then he got me with the bird! I was hungry

Good job on both fronts OCG.

[oldcarguy]

My family received word about said bird. And six came over to share the leftovers today. All good intentions. But it slowed my progress. Here's an update..

I set the blade up in my smaller grinder using my two home made grinding vises and two parallel's on either end. Finished ground to withing .005". Figured I'd finish to size after I cut them to length.



Tilted my Roll-In vertical band saw at 45 degrees, and cut into two pieces, One 12" the other 6"






After places the two new blades against my original blade. I noticed that one end is 45 degrees while the other is 30! Not good,, but at least I didn't cut all four ends at 45.. A quick look on my optical comparator confirms the two angles are exactly 45 & 30... I never used the ends  of the blades when operating the protractor. However I can see where it would come in handy.. Learn something new every day...







 

[oldcarguy]

I'm about finished with the blades. I cut the opposite ends to 60 degrees on the band saw. Then set them up on my large grinder in order to have enough height under the wheel. It's a little more delicate to do on a full automatic surface grinder. Like working on a watch with a crowbar. No manual handles on the longitudinal travel and have to run using hydraulic table travels. Note to Uncle Buck. If you noticed I used my planer gage to set the magnet sine plate. And had to use the pin on the planer gage to ring in the correct height...  You had asked where the pin would be handy.. On lower sine bar setting I use my gae blocks. but the planer gage is easier than stacking and ringing gage blocks..  It only took .005" to clean up the band saw marks.





45 degree angle grinding



Finished blades...

[oldcarguy]

double checked the 60 degree angle on my optical comparator ,, it's right on the money



You can see 60* mark in the lower part of this picture, the lines to its' right are vernier reading...

[Uncle Buck]

Man those are sweet! I really appreciate you letting us tag along in pictures during the manufacturing of the blades too! 60 degrees on one end, 45 on the other correct?

After seeing what you did to make those, I am now quite convinced that whatever Rube Goldberg means I would have employed on my crude and inadequate equipment in my homespun little hom shop would have been wholly insufficient for the manufacture of decent blades. Regardless what raw material I had decided to use! Those are absolutely beautiful, just beautiful!

[Uncle Buck]

I greatly enjoyed seeing your shaper gage and extension in use as well!

[oldcarguy]

Yes there is a 45* angle on one end and 60* on the other of both the 12" and 6" blade. I still have .005" left on the thickness. That I should remove,, no biggie. See the slot in the head? The blade fits into there at low angle settings. And the extra stock on the thickness of the blade may interfere. So I will take it off tomorrow..



One feature that I ordered with my two surface grinders is an over-the-wheel diamond dresser that's permanently mounted in the guard housing. Makes for easy dressing on the fly.. Without one. You'd either have to bring the wheel to the table level. Or I have a magnetic diamond dressing block that sticks to the side of the work piece. But you still have to change the wheel setting to dress. And spark off again... With the over-the-wheel dresser. Simply dress  off say .005" off the wheel. And you know that the freshly dressed wheel is the same .005 the work piece... Dial the head down .005 and you're kissing your last grinding surface...  Oh the luxury.. 

[Uncle Buck]

Those blades look as good, if not better than blades that Brown and Sharp would have made originally in my opinion and certainly not with the same care and attention to detail as has been shown in these pictures!

I am absolutely humbled knowing that I am going to be the recipient of those blades.

[Uncle Buck]

Since I bought my protractor head so cheap, I wasn't bothered by the lack of a fitted B&S case for the head. My original plans were quite modest for the tool. I thought maybe I could luck into some used blades, or even adapt some cheap import blades. I figured worst case scenario perhaps I might cobble a set of blades up as best I could.

Well, plans changed radically. Having seen these beautiful blades OCG painstakingly crafted for me I know there is no way I would just toss those in a drawer to clank around my other odds and ends. My head looks pretty good, save one small engraving, but I can live with that.

So, I determined to find a fitting home for the head and pending arrival of the blades. Enter ebay, I lucked out and found a NOS B&S protractor box for my model protractor (Black simulated leather W/ B&S marking on the case & blue crushed velvet lining) cost was not obscene given it is vintage NOS and not cheap plastic like everything else these days. I sort of felt duty bound if you will to find a case worthy of the new blades. That makes sense to everyone right? It isn't just me right? 


A phrase I try to live by when I buy something, especially something I plan to have for a long time, or something that ensures my safety and well being (meaning tools, brakes, and steering components for starters) so, words to live by, most old duffers have heard "Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten"

[oldcarguy]

What are the chances of finding a better home and perfect case for your treasured new toy.. Job well done!

Seeing that you purchased the head without knowing the condition. Other than it's great looking condition. I'm concerned the condition of the blade locking tab on the head. If you look where the blade fits into the space above the round angular degree scale and small locking arm of the head. You'll see a small tab that catches the groove in the blade. That tightens the blade into the head. When you rotate the smaller thumb screw in either direction. You will see that tab move in and out. My concern is that that tab moves as I tried to described. And the tab protrudes deep enough to catch the blade. And not too long to hit the bottom of the groove in the blade. There is no more than .020” past the blade surface on mine and the sample one that I borrowed...

Hopefully between this picture and you head you'll be able to see where I'm coming from...

[Uncle Buck]

I know exactly what you are talking about. Not having a blade to try with the head I cannot definitively say how the two will interact at this point.  I have not viewed that space with the finger the groove rides on under magnification, but I do know the round knob that controls the finger does turn freely on the threads allowing for adjustment.  However,  the knob cannot be removed from the screw adjustment that it controls.  The best I could tell when I turned that knob seemed as though it did adjust the position of the finger as it was designed to do.

[Uncle Buck]

I can say there did not appear to be a huge amount of protrusion of that finger. It has been several weeks since I was playing with the head so I could not say how many thousands of an inch the finger protrudes at its deepest adjustment. I  think if I needed to know what that gap measures the most accurate means I would have to put a figure to that would be with feeler gages.

Also, when the finger is retracted allowing for the greatest amount of gap where the blade rides, very little of that finger remains visible to the eye,  appearing as it does in your picture. That would indeed be a very troublesome part of the head to deal with should there be an issue. I imagine rendering the head useless and in need of replacement I surmise. But, all appears normal at this point and I  will just have to proceed cautiously when test fitting the two to my thinking unless you can think of something that I have not considered. Very inciteful, your observation, definitely something that bears a slow and careful approach when the blades and head first meet for sure!

[oldcarguy]

If you see the locking finger will sit below the blade surface. And it moves when you turn the smaller knob. Should work fine. That finger only grabs the blade by .020”. And works good on both brand protractors.

[Uncle Buck]

I will add this, if the head was shot, I absolutely would find another to replace it. Finding stray heads with no blades or cases is very easy as there are an abundance of those to be found, often cheap, nearly as cheap as the one I found no doubt due to the fact blades are quite expensive and rarely found without a head. Sellers are preying on both the greed and ignorance of many buyers. At least I was aware of the issue when I bought mine prior to purchasing it. So, like I said, if need be I will find another head if mine does not prove out. I am betting it will be fine though.

[Uncle Buck]

If you see the locking finger will sit below the blade surface. And it moves when you turn the smaller knob. Should work fine. That finger only grabs the blade by .020”. And works good on both brand protractors.

I think I am fine then. I looked that finger over pretty close before ever moving forward in search of blades because I knew if that finger was not appearing to operate as it should, blades would be a mute point. The finger on mine virtually disappears when retracted, but is pronounced when dialed in as would be done to lock down the blade.

[oldcarguy]

The readings and lines are really pronounced on your protractor. It looks far easier to read than my 80 year old ancestor. As far as the compromised area around the B/S insignia area is no biggie. I wonder if some past owner may have tried to put black paint in the engraving to enhance the appearance. And used some abrasive polish to take off the over run.. Some light polishing may blend it in. In any even it will not hinder its' performance...

[Uncle Buck]

Agreed, at the time of purchase I thought the same thing about the appearance. There was no shipping cost. The head plus tax totalled right at $25 as I recall.
I went back and checked the price. Purchase price was $23.74 + tax for a total of $25.96
Amazing how small the head of these instruments actually are in person.

[Uncle Buck]

The sad part about many of the old B&S vernier, protractor heads, height gages and depth gages is the neglected and poor finish on so much of what you find for sale. Some micrometers look absolutely horrible, and not just the frames, sometimes even the anvils and the spindles too. Literally rust, on anvils and spindles! Some appear to have come out of old welding shops, appearing as though they layed on welding tables next to the chipping hammer!

I recall the first really poor condition micrometers I ever saw was when I was in HS. I was at a friend's house visiting. They were wealthier than my folks and lived in the silk stocking district. His pop was an engineer.  Anyway, we were dinking around at his dad's workbench and one of us opened a drawer. Within was a large wooden box that contained 4-5 micrometers. I don't recall the brand but they surely were a quality USA made brand. Every micrometer was eaten up with rust. That was just so sad to see. I knew what I was looking at and how the micrometers were supposed to look. I never forgot that.

[Uncle Buck]

I removed the link where I shared the pictures of the head. It just hit me that someone could make purchases with what  I shared!   

[oldcarguy]

I often think of days gone by. The pride a machinist had purchasing new precision tools. And the stories they could tell about the work they performed. The purchase price had to been a good percentage of their wages of the day. No doubt the craftsmen took meticulous care of each and every tool. As his work depending on it. The size of the protractor head may be small. But their accuracy is amazing. Plus you get a better feel with a small tool, rather than lugging a pound gadget.

I have a dozen old precise spring calipers sets that are wonder tools. Old timer relied on them for so many measurements. And could work to tenth's with them... Today I seldom see the younger generation of machinists use them let alone purchase them...   

[Uncle Buck]

I cannot say that I have used them much, but I have several. But I have also never worked as a machinist for a living. The closest I got was a machine operator in a mfg company.

I did take several semesters of Night classes in Machine Technology for fun though years ago. I did learn quite a bit though.

[oldcarguy]

The Blades are complete. I'll put some rust preventive on them and package them for shipping. Then drop them off at the post office tomorrow and you should have them in a few days..





Below is an earlier picture some fine cross scratches can be seen on the blades. That's from sliding the blade across the magnet to remove them from the magnetic chuck An electromagnetic chuck has a built in demagnetizer that will work. But my chuck is permanent magnetic.. .  The water suctions the blade to the chuck. And fine grits does the number removing the thin blades. On a taller piece you can tilt and pull it off one the front edge. Without sliding.. There are several solutions. One would be to use an air hose to release the suction. But my father along with most good machinists would heavily frown on that practice. NEVER blow air in or around machinery, as it'll blow grit into critical places and mess up the machine.

The second trick I used. Placing a piece of wax type paper between the work piece and chuck. Don't use regular paper, it will break into pieces and clog the coolant system.. Then the work will slide across the chuck without putting any scratches on the work piece...

[Uncle Buck]

Those turned out absolutely stunning. The case will be here by Saturday so the blades will have the perfect place to live when they arrive. Friday is my payday and will be the day I PayPal Rusty the site donation as we discussed on your behalf.

I just never dreamed this could have ever worked out this well for me. I will tell you this, there is a whole lot more to making quality blades than I ever imagined! That was quite a lesson in just how little I really do know! 😆

[The Magic Ratchet]

It was an education for all of us. Thank You OCG.

Lou Manglass

[bonneyman]

It was an education for all of us. Thank You OCG.

Lou Manglass

Agreed! 

[oldcarguy]

Happy to hear that others enjoyed seeing how to make protractor blades. It was a fun project to say the least.

Note to Uncle Buck. I sent you a PM giving you the tracking numbers. The shipping time was longer than I expected. Should arrive this upcoming Tuesday. By the way there’s a little something special that I placed in the box. I have a dozen such items and there’s no way I can ever use or need that many. Thought you’d make good use of it.

[oldcarguy]

I thought that I'd try to put a youtube link showing the final grinding of the blades. Taking off .0005"...  Half a thousandth of an inch that is   

https://youtube.com/shorts/TXanyZvDfck?si=pUms7fYBt6Oi--GG

[The Magic Ratchet]

Thanks for the video, that was excellent!

My father-in-law used to be a tool and die maker, he brought me many amazing creations from the surface grinder at work. All I had to do was dream it up. It took him a while to get used to working without blueprints and using his own creativity to fill in the gaps but he became great at it.

Lou Manglass

[Der Bugmeister]

I thought that I'd try to put a youtube link showing the final grinding of the blades. Taking off .0005"...  Half a thousandth of an inch that is   

https://youtube.com/shorts/TXanyZvDfck?si=pUms7fYBt6Oi--GG

Talk about cutting it close!

I always marvel at the knowledge and experience it takes to bring together the machines, instruments and materials to create such things!